GTX, this is what I was saying about the 73 ball joint still being expensive. It is available, just not from the counter parts store.
R-Stones, you are correct that everything can be bought in a kit for around $250. But, try and buy the ball joints seperatly. You will find that it is almost the same price! This is why anytime the swap comes up you will always hear people say go ahead and get the kit and rebuild the whole front end.
Yatzee, The SSBC kit works just like the Scarebird, Ajax, TSM, ect kit; it still uses the old spindle. There is NO KIT on the market that can eliminate a 33+ yr old factory spindle to my knowledge. Any properly done conversion should use all new parts and only reuse the spindle and caliper braket only. At this point every swap, even the 69-73 is on the same ground. The extra $500 SSBC charges gets you a fancier caliper and slotted rotors. To which SSBC has yet to prove provides any extra stopping capacity, and I have asked them this point blank on several occasions. With that said, several people here have them, and all love them.
Thanks NFURY8, this has been a most informative thread. One more quick question, the spindles for a drum car, let's say '66, are the same left and right, correct? I had mine marked, but with all the cleaning and painting and setting them aside I no longer can tell which was which.
Joined: Fri Oct 07 2005, 12:03PM
Location: Central Ky.
Posts: 1575
First I want to say Welcome to Bill !
Guys, Bill is a dealer in detail parts here in Northern KY. If you need say the engine compartment wiring holdowns, Correct hose clamps etc. Bill is the guy! He does carry C-bod stuff and as soon as I get to that point on the Orange Fury I'll be getting all that stuff from him. He's a good guy to boot!
Bill , pretty much what NFURY8 has said is accurate. The lower Balljoints ( same for Drum 65-73 & Disc 69-73 ) are tha hard pieces to get, NS1 from Moog. The Uppers Balljoints, Upper & lower control arm bushings & Tie-rod ends are all available from Moog still. The Pitman & Idler are hard to get too, usually a Rare Parts item or from one of the "Kit" Suppliers, Just suspension, PST, ESPO come to mind.
Scarebird is an option, the sell the caliper adaptor for use wth your drum spindle & it seems to use a C-bod caliper at least & maybe the c-rotor also...doesn't say for sure on the website. Rebuilt calipers are cheap & the Rotors are a bit expensive ( depending on which ones,69-72 are the more expensive last I heard & the late 72-73 are cheaper ...that's why most people lookfor the 73 disc setups for conversion ).
You'll need a Disc MC & Booster also & a prop valve for disc is nice but you can just put an adjustable to the rear wheels ifyou can't find one. i'd say you could use the prop valve & booster & MC from the parts car with the Budds most likely.
I have bought just the Lowers from PST ( Sorry Steve...won't do it again! ) about 2 years ago & they were 60.00 a piece then....I'm guessing they've gone up! I'd try Just suspensionn now. Got the Pitman from my local O'Reilly's from Rare parts for about 75.00 back then. Again I'msure this stuff has gone up. There's no getting around this unless we can get Moog to build them again ( doubful ).
Joined: Sun Jan 07 2007, 07:37PM
Location: London,Ontario
Posts: 166
For all those confused about numbers and availability of front suspension parts go here for the Moog part numbers. My entirefront end was done in these and I secured them at a local parts store, Napa I believe.
Moog are "top drawer" parts and with proper maintenance should last for years so it's little wonder of the price. I could give you a site for China crap at half the price but the R&D on that stuff is questionable at best. I've restored two cars so far and live by a solom slogan:
Joined: Sat Nov 11 2006, 09:59PM
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 9
The Scarebird kit is very similar to SSBC, etc, etc, except we don't mark up the hardware 100%. You can do a whole conversion with all new parts for under $350.
I'd like to chime in here with my own disc brake conversion experiences.
Best thing I ever did to my T&C.
Re-use the booster from your 66 Budd Disc equipped car, it's the right one (see below). Don't use the single pot disc master from 66, use instead a master from a 69-73 with discs, as it will be a dual resevoir master, and be much safer.
I am going to take the liberty of pasting in a document I wrote for the other Drydock some time ago, as it has a lot of pertinent info regarding this swap.
DISC BRAKE CONVERSION INFO FOR 65-66 C-BODY
FOR NON AUTOPILOT EQUIPPED CARS, ONE CAN USE ANY 69-73 C-BODY DUAL RES DISC MASTER CYLINDER.
FOR AUTOPILOT EQUIPPED CARS, USE MASTER CYLINDER NUMBER 1475. THIS MASTER HAS A CASTING NUMBER 2226 821 ON THE BOTTOM, ORIGINAL APPLICATION 1968 CHARGER WITH DISC/DRUM, 10� REAR BRAKES. IT IS NICE AND SKINNY, AND THE BIG PLUS IS THAT IT HAS OUTLETS ON THE PASSENGER SIDE, AND WON�T INTERFERE WITH THE AUTOPILOT CONTROL HEAD MOUNTING BRACKETS. YOU WILL HAVE TO RE-FORM THE AUTOPILOT THROTTLE ARM AROUND THE MASTER, AND NOTCH THE TOP EDGE OF THE BRACKET TO CLEAR THE MASTER CYLINDER COVER. THERE IS ANOTHER MASTER SUBSTITUTED FOR THE SAME NUMBER WITH OUTLETS ON BOTH SIDES, WITH THE DRIVERS SIDE ONES PLUGGED. IT IS MUCH WIDER, AND WILL STILL INTERFERE WITH AUTOPILOT BRACKETS. MAKE SURE THE ONE YOU GET HAS THE CORRECT CASTING NUMBER ON THE BOTTOM.
USE 65-68 C-BODY DISC BRAKE BENDIX DUAL DIAPHRAGM BOOSTER. FOR COLUMN SHIFT CARS, ONE MUST USE THIS BOOSTER TO AVOID BOOSTER INTERFERENCE WITH THE COLUMN SHIFT LINKAGE. IF YOU HAVE CONSOLE SHIFT OR FOURSPEED, YOU CAN USE ANY 65-73 DISC BOOSTER. DON'T USE THE DRUM BRAKE BOOSTER, AS IT DOES NOT HAVE ENOUGH BOOST TO COMPLETELY ENERGIZE DISCS, AND WILL LEAVE YOU WITHOUT ENOUGH STOPPING POWER IN AN EMERGENCY....JUST WHERE YOU NEED IT! YES, I KNOW SOME HAVE USED THE DRUM BOOSTER, AND YES IT WORKS, BUT THE FACTORY DID USE A DIFFERENT BOOSTER, AND FOR GOOD REASON.
USE 69-73 C-BODY PROP VALVE. RE-USE REAR HARD LINE FROM PROP VALVE. MAKE NEW HARD LINES FROM MASTER CYLINDER TO PROP VALVE. MAKE NEW OR RE-FORM FRONT HARD LINES FROM PROP VALVE TO FRONT FLEX LINES. USE NEW FRONT FLEX LINES FOR 69-73 C-BODY WITH DISCS. USE 69-72 DISC BRAKE SPINDLES, 69-73 CALIPERS, BACKING PLATES, SHIELDS AND HARDWARE. USE EXISTING 65-73 DRUM BRAKE BALL JOINTS.
OPTIONAL: REPLACE EXISTING SPINDLES WITH 1973 C-BODY SPINDLES TO BE ABLE TO USE THE 1973 ROTORS AND BEARINGS. APPARENTLY THESE ROTORS ARE MORE AVAILABLE DUE TO USE IN VANS ETC UP TO MID 80�S
73 ROTORS AND BEARINGS CAN ONLY BE USED WITH 1973 SPINDLES.
The 73 rotor numbers are: Raybestos PG Plus line - 7018 Raymold line - 107018 Aimco line - 7018RGS Bendix - 141072
69-72 ROTORS AND BEARINGS CAN BE USED ON ANY C-BODY DISC BRAKE SPINDLE 69-72. 69-72 DISC BRAKE SPINDLES CAN BE SWAPPED INTO ANY 65-73 DRUM BRAKE C-BODY TO FACILITATE THE DISC CONVERSION, USING THE ORIGINAL DRUM BRAKE UPPER AND LOWER BALL JOINTS. It is recommended that one replace used ball joints with new ones.
The 69-72 rotor numbers are: Raybestos PG Plus - 7012 Bendix - 141047
The 69-72 bearings are: Inner - BCA - A6 Outer - BCA - A2 The calipers are identical 69-73.
Joined: Sun Oct 16 2005, 10:44AM
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 78
To respond to gtx6970's original question about getting rid of the expensive and hard to find lower ball joint: didn't the fuselage Imperials use a whole different lower control arm than the C bodies, one that used a different lower ball joint? If I remember right, it's the same ball joint that was used in trucks for many years after the end of the full-size Imperial so they are cheaper and more readily available. I think they were the screw-in type, not attached to a huge piece of cast iron that bolted into the back of the brake backing plate like the Cs. I guess if you scavenged the front end off an Imperial, you could get rid of the expensive ball joint, but then you'd probably be stuck with a lot of other expensive stuff. Just a thought.
As different as Imperials were, that could be a long shot. Infact after a quick look, I can't even find rotors for a 70-73 Imp! looks like they use the same caliper though.