title says it all. I have a 1968 300 I want to convert to discs using a more common rotor , spindle type. something that gets away from the hard to find lower ball joint
Joined: Sat Dec 10 2005, 04:28PM
Location: United States
Posts: 4954
Those Ball joints have always been expensive. Even back when the cars were new. There is nothing you can do except go back to 64 Control arms. But you'll have to change the strut rods too.
justsuspension.com has them. . . They ar ethe best ones, but most expensive too. If it's a daily, they are worth the expense.
Ok, I'm confused on a couple of thing. And I don't mean to highjack a thread, but I am doing a brake swap also, so this info is revelant to me.
1. NFURY8 said that the '73 will bolt right in but there in no way to escape the ball joint. I took that to mean the Budd ball joint. But if you change to the '73 spindles you have to use the '73 ball joint, thus eliminating the expensive Budd ball joint. If you mean the '73 disc ball joint, I don't know if those are expensive or not. I do know the drum ball joints are cheap in comparison to the Budd.
2. Polaraco said that you would need to use '64 lower control arms and strut rods. You may be reffering to a swap I am not familiar with. Please help me get my little mind around that!
Here is what I am doing and what I found. I have a '66 300 with Budd brakes. I want to do a complete front end rebuild, including the lower ball joints. They are rediculouslyexpensive for the Budd set up. So I am going to use the Scarebird brackets. The brackets will not bolt to a Budd disc spindle, but I have had several parts cars, so I have the spindles from a '66 NY with drum brakes. I figure It would cost me about the same to track down a '73 disc setup and replace rotors and calipers as it would for me to buy the stuff to use with the brackets. Besides I already have the spindles. I got out a Budd ball joint and a drum ball joint. The profile is the same, the stud is the same, the tie rod hole is the same. What is different is the mounting holes for the backing plates and to the spindle. That is why you cannot use a Scarebird braket on the disc spindle, the holes don't line up. Also the drum ball joint will not bolt onto the disc spindle, and vice versa. The control arms appear to be the same. No difference from drum to disc. So my plan is to use the lower control arms from a disc car('66), the strut rods from a disc car('66), the spindle and lower ball joint from a drum car('66), the Scarebird bracket and calipers and rotors Scarbird calls for. But I could have used the lower control arms and strut rods from the '66 drum car, right? I chose the disc ones because they had less grime and rust, they were earier to clean.
So why go to the earlier control arms and strut rods if the '73 will bolt right into either drum or disc? And please understand I am not trying to point out mistakes, I am trying to claify info before I make a mistake. And I know I am not using the '73 setup, but it seems the info is the same for that conversion as well. I am getting ready this afternoon to put the sub-frame back under the car. I exchanged one with a little rust for a rust free one. Also painted it. I thought I had all the suspension figured out, but you guys are scaring me!
Joined: Thu Oct 13 2005, 05:11PM
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Posts: 124
rollinstones wrote ... Ok, I'm confused on a couple of thing. And I don't mean to highjack a thread, but I am doing a brake swap also, so this info is revelant to me.
1. NFURY8 said that the '73 will bolt right in but there in no way to escape the ball joint. I took that to mean the Budd ball joint. But if you change to the '73 spindles you have to use the '73 ball joint, thus eliminating the expensive Budd ball joint. If you mean the '73 disc ball joint, I don't know if those are expensive or not. I do know the drum ball joints are cheap in comparison to the Budd.
2. Polaraco said that you would need to use '64 lower control arms and strut rods. You may be reffering to a swap I am not familiar with. Please help me get my little mind around that!
Here is what I am doing and what I found. I have a '66 300 with Budd brakes. I want to do a complete front end rebuild, including the lower ball joints. They are rediculouslyexpensive for the Budd set up. So I am going to use the Scarebird brackets. The brackets will not bolt to a Budd disc spindle, but I have had several parts cars, so I have the spindles from a '66 NY with drum brakes. I figure It would cost me about the same to track down a '73 disc setup and replace rotors and calipers as it would for me to buy the stuff to use with the brackets. Besides I already have the spindles. I got out a Budd ball joint and a drum ball joint. The profile is the same, the stud is the same, the tie rod hole is the same. What is different is the mounting holes for the backing plates and to the spindle. That is why you cannot use a Scarebird braket on the disc spindle, the holes don't line up. Also the drum ball joint will not bolt onto the disc spindle, and vice versa. The control arms appear to be the same. No difference from drum to disc. So my plan is to use the lower control arms from a disc car('66), the strut rods from a disc car('66), the spindle and lower ball joint from a drum car('66), the Scarebird bracket and calipers and rotors Scarbird calls for. But I could have used the lower control arms and strut rods from the '66 drum car, right? I chose the disc ones because they had less grime and rust, they were earier to clean.
So why go to the earlier control arms and strut rods if the '73 will bolt right into either drum or disc? And please understand I am not trying to point out mistakes, I am trying to claify info before I make a mistake. And I know I am not using the '73 setup, but it seems the info is the same for that conversion as well. I am getting ready this afternoon to put the sub-frame back under the car. I exchanged one with a little rust for a rust free one. Also painted it. I thought I had all the suspension figured out, but you guys are scaring me!
Please let If any of my info is incorrect.
I think you've got it correct. Here's a nice link to a post that links to some photos of another drum disc conversion.
You mentioned Converting to discs, and in my first post I said I assumed you had drums.
There are only 2 lower ball joints used from 65-73. The insanely expensive one for Budd only and just really expensive one for everything else. The later (non-budd) ball joint fits all drum and all single piston caliper applications from 65-73. It is dramatically cheaper then the Budd part, but still quite expensive and it is quite common to hear complaints to such.
So I assumed you had drums and wanted to look at a swap that avoided the just expensive 65-73 ball joint. In which case there is no option. Now if you currently have Budd discs, you can swap to the 69-73 disc setup and change from the $700 Budd ball joints to the $250 'Other' ball joint.
Hope that cleared things up. If not, keep asking!
Disregard what Polaraco said about the 64 parts. He is being silly, and you don't want to go there. He is talking about totally changing the front end to smaller B Body parts, and like I said, we don't want to go there.
Now in response to your further info. Yes, you can swap out your Budd Spindle for ANY C Drum spindle and use a Scarebird kit. The Spindle and the lower ball joint are the only parts you need to change, inthe suspension that is. I would still swap the master and booster to Disc versions. Some provision for a proportioning valve will also need to be made.
I realize you already have the drum spindle, but have you looked for 69-73 disc spindles yet? They don't have to be 73. 69-72 are almost identical with the exception of the bearing races on the spindle. This different bearing requires the use of a slightly more expensive rotor. But, because most people only think the 73 can be used, 69-72 disc spindles can sometimes be had for a bargain.
Thanks for all the replies so far. Yes it is a drum brake car. Though the parts car I am supposed to get does have the 4 piston discs that I will NOT be using simply do to economics . I want to drive this car on a regular basis. I was looking for front suspension pieces recently and realized the lower ball joint is not avail in the aftermkt. But a lower ball joint is avail for a 73 ????? Does this sound right or am I wishing on a star here . I'm after factory parts for the conversion so an aftermkt kit is not an option.
And i'm safe to assume the late A-or B body disc brakes will not work. How about Cordoba or similar ?
<span class='smallblacktext'>[ Edited Sun Jan 07 2007, 06:36PM ]</span>
So I assumed you had drums and wanted to look at a swap that avoided the just expensive 65-73 ball joint. In which case there is no option. Now if you currently have Budd discs, you can swap to the 69-73 disc setup and change from the $700 Budd ball joints to the $250 'Other' ball joint.
The suspension kit I bought for $249 included the lower ball joints for a non disc plus the upper ball joints, all the bushings, and bumpers. Where does your figure of $250 for just the lower ball joints originate?
I got the sub frame under the car yesterday, and a few of the suspension pieces hung. Hope to have it sitting on front tires by the end of the week.
Joined: Sun Jan 07 2007, 07:37PM
Location: London,Ontario
Posts: 166
Because of all the complications associated with swaps, I used SS Brake's kit on the front of my '65 Fury III. The best part of the kit is that I used my existing spindles and everything else mounted right on. All new parts came with the kit so rebuilding used parts was not a concern and every part necessary to do the swap was included except the MC which I bought locally for about fifty bucks. Kit even include a new proportioning valve.