...with my '76 with the original RV2 compressor with R12. Previously, I always went the proper routewith getting new compressors rebuilt for 134A. Recently, the A/C has just started blowing warm but funds are really bad at the moment. So what's the truth? What's the bottom line? Who has used the Wally World so called "conversion kits" (really R134A with adaptor fittings)?? Do they work? Don't forget I'm in Florida. !stars
Joined: Fri Mar 13 2009, 11:21AM
Location: San Marcos, CA
Posts: 713
I believe you have to flush all the old oil out of the system to convert to 134a, the oils are not cross compatible. The cost difference between 12 and 134a will offset the cost of the 134A kit. IMHO I would flush your system and set it up for R134a.
Agreed, you need to evacuate and clean out the old oil, and replace any O-rings you open with new R134A compatible. If you don't crack those joints, leave them.
However, make sure you only use about 55% of the original R12 charge weight in R134A, as the compression and expansion properties are different thatn R12. (This you probably already know from experience).
I have had good experience however with Duracool, which I can dump into the system myself with their little kit. That way, I can buy the cans at Walmart, and whenever the system starts to fall down, I just dump another can in and I'm good to go for another summer.
I've been doing that now for 10 years with the wagon, and it works great. (Only 3 or 4 cans over that time period). The R 134 A I was recharging every year for big dollars at the local AC place.
It seems to me that the Duracool molecules are bigger, and don't leak out the miriad of small holes our systems are plagued with, as opposed to the R134a molecules which apparently are very small, (smaller than R12), hence the different compression/expansion properties), and leak out quickly, no matter what you do.
The Wally World conversion kits are not R134A as far as I know, they tend to be Butane family stuff. Works very well for me.
Remember, I live in Southern Ontario, with extremely humid and often as hot as Florida temps. Not like Arizona etc, but still, puts at big load on the car AC systems. <span class='smallblacktext'>[ Edited Sun Feb 19 2012, 10:45AM ]</span>
Joined: Sun Jul 11 2010, 09:35AM
Location: Boerne,Tx
Posts: 411
I have bought from this company before and they have a great prices and a great product. The es12a is completely compatible with the r12 already in your car and is colder than r134 could ever dream of. just my 2 cents
commando1 wrote ... ...with my '76 with the original RV2 compressor with R12. Previously, I always went the proper routewith getting new compressors rebuilt for 134A. Recently, the A/C has just started blowing warm but funds are really bad at the moment. So what's the truth? What's the bottom line? Who has used the Wally World so called "conversion kits" (really R134A with adaptor fittings)?? Do they work? Don't forget I'm in Florida. !stars
Joined: Thu May 01 2008, 11:15AM
Location: Chicago,IL
Posts: 2868
I have dumped the rv2 crankcase, put a new dryer on, and fittings and it has lived. That setup would leak ~1lb/yr. We'll see how the new sanden setup with new lines does this year.
Joined: Sun Jan 31 2010, 03:36PM
Location: Dublin, PA
Posts: 414
Hi Stan, Here's some reading for you before you decide what to do. I plan to try this in my cars this spring. I had been using Freeze-12, but the price keeps going up and up, and it doesn't work all that great in some systems. I found this thread while researching how to get Freeze-12 to work right:
Talk about serendipity!! I found a guy locally who's been doing A/C for 35 years and even knows all about the AutoTemp II. He still has a stockpile of parts for the R2 compressors!!! Dropped the car off to him this morning and he's going to take it from there. The only requirement was he can't work on A/C cars with Ri2 in them because he doesn't want to get involved with capturing, disposal, etc. I told him that the car would be brought in mysteriously purged of all R12. Must have been a real bad leak, huh???
Joined: Fri May 18 2007, 04:59PM
Location: Vegas
Posts: 82
You REALLY NEED to find out why the stock system isn't cooling right now.
Your question isn't really about R-12 vs 134, but is more about what is causing it to not work.
R-12 will always work better in a stock system (stock condenser, dryer, pressure lines, expansion valve, etc).
134 will work as well, but not without upgrading the other components.
I find it astounding how many people convert to 134 just because it is supposedly cheaper, but the reality is that so many of us stockpiled R-12, coupled with the vast amounts that have to be recovered, by law, from junk cars, old window A/C's, some home A/C's, Restaurant equipment, etc; that R-12 is actually a boon on the market, and judicial searching can find it at a fraction of the price of retail pricing on 134! ---- Think about it, nobody uses 12 anymore! It's actually illegal to "give" it away, there is no legal means to destroy it, even A/C guys need specific licenses to use it, so the stockpiles just keep building up, The big junkyards in California have to PAY to have it "legally" taken away!
Some shopping on Craigslist, and other "local" type marketplaces or swapmeets will net you R-12 at a fraction of the price you have to pay at the auto parts store for 134. ---- I wont even buy (R-12) for $5.00 a lb. anymore as I have acquired more than I will ever use in 10 lifetimes, and more and more, everyone that stockpield it has come to realize that it has become only "clutter", not a road to riches! ---- I'm guilty also, even though I deal with A/C all the time.
RV2 compressors just don't really last for a long time converted to 134 due to there deep sump, but If you are converting over to a much more efficient rotary compressor, high volume condenser, proper drier, high density pressure lines, nitril seals, and an expansion valve calibrated for 134, then go for it.
However, if you just have a leak, or clogged expansion valve in your stock system (or other small problem), converting to 134 is about the least cost efficient modification you can do to a car, and will result in reduced cooling, and frequent problems in an otherwise stock A/C system.
Lastly, any of the "drop in" replacement refrigerants such as "Freeze 12", or other non "R" 12 named replacements will work fine, but keep in mind that they are all propane/butane based gases.
Anyone that feeds these into a system that leaks is nuts in my opinion. Would you carry a leaking propane cylinder in the backseat of your car whenever you drove it? If the A/C system is sealed, they work fine, but with a bit of judicious shopping R-12 is cheaper, without the danger.
Whoaaaaaaaaaaa, Q-ship!!! Before you shoot from the hip with your rant......... the FIRST (!!!) thing my shop is doing is making up new hoses, testing the system for leaks, and checking out the WHOLE system first.
PLUS, he has my Miller Special Tools C-4144 Chrysler Auto Temp II test box and manuals!!!
And yes, if we need a new drier, evaporator, cmpressor, EPR valve (do you even know what and where the EPR valve is and what it does?), etc. it will be replaced. Don't take me to task when most people here know darn well I don't cheap out on my repairs.
OK? !stars
<span class='smallblacktext'>[ Edited Wed Feb 22 2012, 07:05AM ]</span>
Joined: Sun Jul 11 2010, 09:35AM
Location: Boerne,Tx
Posts: 411
Well said Stan!!!
commando1 wrote ... Whoaaaaaaaaaaa, Q-ship!!! Before you shoot from the hip with your rant......... the FIRST (!!!) thing my shop is doing is making up new hoses, testing the system for leaks, and checking out the WHOLE system first.
PLUS, he has my Miller Special Tools C-4144 Chrysler Auto Temp II test box and manuals!!!
And yes, if we need a new drier, evaporator, cmpressor, EPR valve (do you even know what and where the EPR valve is and what it does?), etc. it will be replaced. Don't take me to task when most people here know darn well I don't cheap out on my repairs.
OK? !stars
<span class='smallblacktext'>[ Edited Wed Feb 22 2012, 07:51AM ]</span>