Joined: Wed Mar 21 2007, 10:01PM
Location: Englewood, Co
Posts: 294
Since I'm getting started on Everything I want to edit this post to share the information that I've found so far.
Since the C-body gets little love from the aftermarket We've gotta get a bit creative. Here's what I've found thus far:
There are 2 versions of the 5.7L Hemi. The truck Hemi and the car hemi. The truck Hemi's layout is remarkably just like that of a small block c-body's. You big block guys might want to look into the layout of the car hemi's. Although I can honestly say I'm not at all familiar with your layout.
Engine: Mounts- My Fury is a small block. This gives me a huge advantage since Street & Performance sells adapters that bolt onto my standard engine mounts for about $135 (yes, overpriced but it's bolt on and the only real option right now). http://www.hotrodlane.cc
Oil Pan- The stock pan that came from the truck looks pretty beat up. It's also just a little too long to clear my steering linkage. I'm going to give the Milodon pan a shot. Not a bad price since most pans cost a good bit more than $200 when they're for a swap. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MIL-31000/
Power Steering- I'm not sure as to what the orignial PSI output is on my 360's power steering pump. I found a thread discussing this topic on another board though. The gyst of it is this. The new Hemi PSpump puts out 1350 PSI. Most stock mopar pumps run 1200-1300 psi. The vast majority of people haven't had issues just using the new hemi pump. Read up on it a bit yourself: http://www.thehemi.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=3020
Radiator: My small block C-body has the same radiator hose configuration as the Hemi. It remains to be seen how well it will hold up to cooling the new engine. However if I can get away using the stock radiator unmolested, I'm certainly gonna try it! The other thing I'll be looking into is a cheap high CFM electric fan with variable speed control.** Update** So, getting the new set-up, my 2004 Dodge Ram hemi comes with a fan that fits perfectly within the old shroud. I may have to look at adjusting the placement a little, but so far so good. The transmission lines are larger than stock. In order to use the transmission cooler lines into my radiator I'll have to have the holes tapped larger, however that shouldn't be an issue.
Transmission: This one remains to be seen. The 545 that is comming with my new Hemi uses a slip yoke. It fits perfectly with my old yoke. Once I have the Trans mount fabricated I will be able to properly measure the driveshaft to see if it needs to be machined shorter or if it will work as is. The floor pan might need some gentle persuassion as far as clearancing goes, and as I understand it, the transmission mount on a 545 is set lower than a 727. Street & Performance tells me that they sell linkage that will allow me to use my stock column shifter to control the new transmission. The 545 uses a very basic slide cable shifter.
Fuel system:After talking to Chris at HotwireAuto it was suggested that I simply get a stock fuel pump for the truck's engine I want to run and fit it to my car. With the stock controler that's built into the fuel system on the block i'm getting, I shouldn't even need to worry about a return line. Ignore that last part. The fuel sending unit for the truck is stupid big. So, the new plan being, I have a sump currently welded to the bottom of my gas tank. I put an edelbrock in tank pump that I'm sure will handle the PSI needed for the system, and I'm using the 99 corvette fuel filter/pressure regulator. They run about $35 each and the regulator runs at the PERFECT 58psi needed for this engine. For a fuel return I'm using the old return line from my cars emissions system. On page 4 of this post I have detailed my current plans for the fuel sending unit and how I'm going to fab a bulkhead connector for the wiring for the pump. Why an in tank pump? well all things considered they're more reliable, and last longer than an exterior pump. I'm all about low maintenance.
Electronics: Remains to be seen. So far it looks like I'll need to flash the factory ECU to reset everything, and I'll need a converter to change the signal from the transmission's speedo output to something my dash can recognize. I'll most certainly need to upgrade my electrical system as a whole since the new alternator is 135+ amps. Though some of this will have to wait until after the move. Top priority is getting everything rolling right now.
HotwireAuto is a great source as far as wireharnesses and since this is a drive by wire system they also sell the pedal assembly. http://www.hotwireauto.com
More to come.
Original Post **"She's gonna kill me... i need somebody to store all sharp instruments in my house until after all is said and done.
So, getting married in 7 weeks.. a week and a half later moving out of state.
Just pulled the engine from my Fury last night. The plan was to overhaul it replace the leaking gaskets and all that fun jazz.
The problem:
For only $1000 more than i was "planning" on spending, I have the chance to get a 2004 5.7l hemi with tranny, wiring harness, everything. The eventual plan WAS to put one of these in the car... the timing is sadly HORRIBLE. but when it rains it pours right?
So, storing the kitchen knives and everything else aside, I figure i'm going to need the mounts properly welded to the K member, tranny mount adjusted, and drive shaft machined.
What else? Anybody done this? let me know what I need to keep in mind here. Thanks guys!
The car... between engines..
New rig.
Sandblasting can be fun! Especially when removing 40 years worth of dirt.
I think most of your problems will be electrical - trying to get the engine and trans computers plus all the sensors working properly could be nasty problem that you won't be able to fix in such a short time.
My advice: buy the hemi and store it until you have an address to ship it to. That way you can do it right when you have the time you'll need. Clean up the old engine as best as you can and get it back in the car- just carry extra oil with you for the trip! <span class='smallblacktext'>[ Edited Mon Mar 01 2010, 04:41PM ]</span>
Joined: Fri May 18 2007, 04:59PM
Location: Vegas
Posts: 82
Forget the Hemi install. There is so much more to it than you have suggested, and related costs/fabrication, that you wouldn't possibly believe.
I agree that it is a highly beneficial swap, but from your questions, you need to do a ton more research, as it appears you have no real idea what it takes to make it work (not a knock at you as I did/thought the same thing)
I've been working on a similar swap for close to two years, and have decided to keep my 440 in my Chrysler.
My plan is to still do the install in my Road Runner, but it is costing about $5,000 more than I first estimated (and I already own two 5.7 engines), so my Chrysler is going to remain rebuilt stock.
This should be a low cost swap, but you will find that the prices, and fabrication needed is insanely expensive, and that's if you do all the work yourself. Hopefully the prices will come down in the future, but you CAN'T do it in 7 weeks.
Joined: Wed Mar 21 2007, 10:01PM
Location: Englewood, Co
Posts: 294
Ok, my biggest problem is going to be the motor mounts. the huge plus... my fury is a small block, and the hemi engine is from a truck. There's a huge difference between a car and truck hemi. The truck hemi's are rear sump, just like the 5.9 i'm running now. The alternator, A/C compressor, and power steering pump are in the "correct" locations in comparison for my car. A few things I haven't listed but realized as soon as I did...
Fuel delivery system - I need an external electric fuel pump and return for the fuel system.
Power steering should adapt fairly easy as the pump is in the same location. It's just a matter of connecting everything correctly.
Radiator fortunatly has same in/output locations, though I may have to adjust the size of the ports, that's no big deal. I will need an electric fan. The transmission is almost the exact same length, however the splines are of different dimentions, the up side. The splines are on the end of the U-joint, so that won't be too big of a deal to replace... at least I shouldn't need to have the whole driveshaft machined and rebalanced.
I'm looking forward to the boost in the electrical system, since my current system can't handle the power demand of the amp and bass I have set up. I also have a cap in the system to help stabilize the flow to the whole system.
The A/C compressor is in roughly the right place, though I'm probly going to have to go without it until its fully into the car so I can see where everything goes. but that won't kill the whole engine.
The tranny Mount is in the perfect place in theory, the shift linkage, engine mount and throttle by wire along with incorporating the electrical system, and converting my fuel sending unit to having a return for the new system seem to be my issues. I have a new sending unit that I can take to a local shop to fab a return.
part of wiring the system is installing the electric fan and fuel pump. I'll pull the fan from the local pick-a-part. I don't see that as a huge deal. though it'll take a full day or two to get that going.
Several years ago I thought I had seen a c-body small block mount adapters, but for the life of me I can't find any now. I'll try calling TTI tomorrow. The shift linkage shouldn't be a huge deal if all goes well since a 518a is an upgraded 727. I may have to take it to a shop for that. We'll see.
Work with me, not against me. tell me what i'm missing. <span class='smallblacktext'>[ Edited Tue Mar 02 2010, 01:03AM ]</span>
Joined: Wed Mar 21 2007, 10:01PM
Location: Englewood, Co
Posts: 294
furious70 wrote ... Off the top of my head problems: Go to Street and Performance's website
Are you getting all ECU's? Keys, switches, instrument cluster? Various years of ECU's need to see different inputs from the host vehicle.
PS won't work, it's higher psi than the old stuff
truck tranny is big around, it's not going to fit into the car without hacking
Fuel system, you don't need a return necessarily
You need a different oil pan and pickup
I'm pretty sure the stock truck front engine cover interferes with some k members
Oil filter needs to be remoted
5spd tranny linkage vs. 3spd in the car. Or if you're talking using a 727 or 518 you need the correct coversion converter.
5spd tranny does not have mechanical speed output
drive by wire truck pedal conversion off early trucks
See that's what I'm talking about! Thank you!
I am getting ignition wiring, ECU, Throttle wiring, and several other bunches of cables that I get to play christmas tree lights with. This should seriously reduce the amount of adapters and what not I need.
Transmission is supposed to be the "same" shape bell housing as my current small block 727. I may have to modify the floor hump near the rear seat, however I can live with that.
I'll have to look into the factory manual for EFI fuel return info. Thanks for the heads up on that.
Oil filter, Pan, and pickup are issues that you big block guys have problems with constantly. The pan and pickup at least are perfect for us small block guys.(or at least should be as our engines are rear sump just like the truck hemi's not the car hemi's)
Joined: Wed Oct 12 2005, 01:10AM
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 2690
Guyfromoc2003 wrote ...
Work with me, not against me. tell me what i'm missing.
We are not trying to discourage you on this swap. We are only trying to point out that with only 7 weeks you might not have enough time to get this project going. The mechanical part is easy, the electrical and working the bugs out will take the longest.
I know it seems to make sense, for the money at least, to do this now but your biggest limiting factor is time.
I know we would all love to see this upgrade done, but from the information posted so far I think you might be shipping this car to your new residence rather then driving it.
Again we are just trying to help you make the right decision, at least for right now.