Joined: Thu Nov 24 2005, 07:29PM
Location: So Cal.
Posts: 1111
The goal is to take a current 440 sitting on a stand and rebuild it for reliability, drivability and moderate power, as cheaply as possible. Having three 440's sitting around, I chose the one that was already on a stand, from a '68 New Yorker. Since it has previously been rebuilt by a previous owner, it has some already hopped-up parts on it.
1. The oil pan is a # 179, not a 187 as it should be. Time to figure out what car this engine was originally in. Can anybody run the casting number and figure it out? 2536430-9 2. Rod Bearing #4 has a large gouge in it 3. Several cylinders had rust in them and the deck surface is rusty because it was sitting in the back of my van which had a leaky roof. Wouldn't you know that it just had to rain shortly after putting the engine (sans heads) in the back???? I believe the rust will come off with a light cylinder hone.
More to come as time allows.
Originally I was going to drop the CR to around 9:1 but I saw the pop-up pistons glaring at me begging to be thumping again. The engine ran fine in the previous car... until it blew a head gasket. Maybe lower CR pistons should be on order after all.
Those look like KB quench-dome pistons, the little "domes" go in to the flat part of the combustion chambers to help prevent detonation while boosting compression. If you can use those pistons again, I say do it. I'd also keep that combo as intact as you can, odds are that the pistons are machined to fit properly in the chambers, when using the head gasket that is on the engine. I bet you don't have the gaskets any more, do you? Probably not a big deal unless they were some funky gasket.
I agree with your assessment of honing the cylinders to clean up the rust. My 340 was the same way (sadly without the KB pistons), and had a little rust in one of the holes. I had them all honed to re-establish a cross-hatch in the bores, cleaned up the pistons, and used new moly rings. Find out what pistons those are, and count on that being Plan A. If the CR is just too high, you may have to go with new pistons, but a little homework is in order first. If you're at or below 9.75:1, you can probably get away with what you have and a decent cam to have good idle and plenty of power. A lot hinges on what CR you've REALLY got.
Odds are you'll have to get the crank turned, but the journal may be OK if the bearing did it's job.
I'm betting you can end up with something in the 400-425hp range with a decent idle and plenty of grunt with what you've got and a new cam/intake.
My info for casting #s 2536 430 say it's a 66-72 440 with stamping date of 1-22nd day of 68,could be truck or car.Whats the serial #,maybe you can figure out from there.How much do you plan on spending on the shortblock.If you say you had head gasket failure,i would get the block DECKED so that the surface is true and get them to lightly hone the cyl,s w/a torque plate.You can make up the bit you have taken off now w/File and Fit .005 over moly rings.There are 2 area's where you do not want to skimp on.Rod bolts and Gaskets.ARP bolts are cheap insurance and Fel Pro Blue gaskets are'nt high end and certainly not low end but they do work and you can get all the bearings,moly rings etc. in kit form from JEGS and SUMMIT.Bring the pistons to the machine shop,with the cc's info from the cyl heads you are going to use and they can reccomend the thickness of head gasket to keep it around 9.5-10.0...I always polish my combustion chambers smooth to get rid of any "heat spots",then the engine tends not to detonate as easily,all it costs is about 4-6 beer and a carbide bit and you can do some gasket matching and minor bowl work while yer' at it."FREE hp,who woulda thunk it". Glen
Joined: Thu Nov 24 2005, 07:29PM
Location: So Cal.
Posts: 1111
Clair, I looked on Summit last night, and they look like the KB pistons you're talking about. They also have a big "KB" printed on them. I don't think the gaskets are still around, the heads came off a long time ago but maybe there's a gasket still stuck to one of 'em! They didn't look like anything special, though. I also think the crank can be polished and be fine, even if there's a small dimple left after polishing, it should be ok, wouldn't you think? So long as there are no rough edges... I didn't see any bad scratches on the crank and it felt very smooth still.
I've seen bad cranks where they feel like a brake rotor that's never been turned.
Anybody have any experience with the Mopar head porting templates? Polishing the heads also sounds like a good idea.
I think the porting templates are pretty straight-forward, and produce good results. Basically they fit in to the port centered on the valve guides, and you check several "clocked" positions, grinding as you go to get them to fit. As long as everything is blended in well, you should see nice gains in flow. You may want to look in to some of the already-ported heads from Aerohead or Hughes to see how much your time is worth...
*IN THEORY* those KB pistons require machine work to fit properly in the block/heads. That little pad is supposed to milled down to provide the necessary clearance to get the compression you want while preventing detonation. If that block was assembled properly, those clearances are matched to the combo. If you can determine what head gasket came out, you'd be sure to get the combo right. Odds are that it's one of the generic FelPro gaskets that are about 0.040" thick. Those pads will stick up above the deck surface if that's the case. Just be sure to measure what kind of clearance you've got before you put it all together for the last time and you should be fine. I'm sure KB has all the instructions on their web site. Oh, and ring end gaps are important with the KB pistons, too. Nothing too tough, but you'll have to be careful.
With those pistons you have,you are probably gonna save $300 on this rebuild.So, for the $ you save, HUGHES ENGINES has Hyd.roller lifter retro kits for $259 when you buy a roller cam($415),so with the coin you saved on the pistons this works out to "cheap". $675 cam +kit $200 gaskets,bearings and moly rings $75 ARP rod and main bolts $100 HV pump and hardened shaft $50 brass freeze plug kit and double roller timing set w/adj. keyways $300-$400 machine work.(cut crank,hone w/ plates,install cam bearings and balance. Cut and deepen the oil pan and pickup tube,install the stock wintage tray.You have got one sweet shortblock,that will be dead reliable w/awesome driveability and did you say moderate power?.OH YEAH,i'd say. So for about $1,500-1,600,if you can put it together yourself,this would be a great starting point and Low Budget.Glen
Joined: Thu Nov 24 2005, 07:29PM
Location: So Cal.
Posts: 1111
I plan on putting it together myself; done it a couple times already! I love playing with engines but haven't built a super high powerhouse yet (about 450hp/570 ft lbs Pontiac is my strongest one). Someday I'll build something over 500hp.
Anyway, I dunno if a roller cam is in my budget but it IS tempting as my Pontiac has a roller and idles in drive at 650 rpm with good vacuum. It's wayyy too tempting to go nuts on this engine but then without realizing it, we've spent $5000 and it's still not in the car.
Bummer I can't (er... well, really SHOULDN'T) re-use the chain because it already had a roller with adj/ keyway sprockets! I also bought a cylinder hone for a drill but maybe I'll return it... that might be too cheap, although I did a previous 440 with one and it seemed to be alright. Still, having an engine that didn't have a permanent blue smoke screen down the highway (like the current engine my 300 has) would be nice so I don't think I will chance it.
Aside from the rust, the bores and pistons looked nice with no scuffs, and cross-hatching still in the bores. Everything looks to still be standard size, too. Man, I love these old nickel-clad blocks!
Oh, and I will either be using a set of HP manifolds, or hacking up a set of B-body headers... Anybody want to trade a passenger's side HP manifold for a driver's side one? I have two driver's sides, need a passenger side.
Joined: Thu Nov 24 2005, 07:29PM
Location: So Cal.
Posts: 1111
Update:
Well so much for that block. Where the head gasket blew, there are a bunch of cracks so now it's a planter...
Looks like the engine that's in the car will be getting a rebuild instead. I'll toss my old "cursed" 440 in the 300 with an Edelbrock intake and possibly rebuilt heads to buy me some time so I can drive the car and plan the big build.
This will be car #4 for this engine, and only about 7000 miles. Should I put some Marvel Mystery Oil in the cylinders and soak for a while to make sure the rings are free? The engine has been in storage for almost 2 years now.