Joined: Wed Nov 18 2009, 01:47AM
Location: CT
Posts: 9
Hey guys, my name is Matt. I've got a '67 GTX that im restoring. It's a KK1 light turquoise car, black interior, console shifted 727, 440 Super Commando, pretty run of the mill '67 GTX. Anyway, I've always liked the C body stuff but unfortunately, like many of us A, B, and E body Mopar guys, they're usually just a cheap source of big block parts. I'd love to pick up a cool C body (especially a wagon) for a daily driver eventually. Anyway, I'm a little bit confused about something and its hard to find solid info on the C body stuff so I figured I'd ask here.
When did a 440 powered C body receive the High Performance 440? I've heard all sorts of information (or misinformation) that never seems to hold true in all situations. I've usually heard that any 440 C body without air conditioning came through with the HP engine, but then I see HP powered C bodies with air. Was it simply just an option for any C body or?
Joined: Fri Mar 13 2009, 11:21AM
Location: San Marcos, CA
Posts: 713
My uncle had a '67 New Yorker with a 375 horsepower 440 (same as your GTX) with A/C. BTW: I believe even if a station wagon has the TNT, super commando or 440 Magnum call out, it has a 350 horsepower cam.
You could get any option you wanted on a C body (especially Chryslers) fully loaded cars often came with plain jane drive trains like a 383 2bbl and open 2.76 gears. Others had 440 HP's with sure grip 3.55's. Unfortunately most of the records for C bodies burned up in a fire a long time ago, so Gordon Glover can't charge us an outrageous fee to tell us how rare our cars are!!!
For example, many fully loaded 300's came with the regular 440 and open gears, but my plain Newport convertible came with the 383HP and 3.23 sure grip---it's all hit and miss with C bodies.
Joined: Sun Jan 31 2010, 03:36PM
Location: Dublin, PA
Posts: 414
1967 was the first year for a true 440 HP in a C-body. In 1966 you could get a "higher performance" version that included dual exhaust and a dual snorkel air cleaner, but retained the standard cam and low-flow log style exhaust manifolds. In 1966 the VIN is the same for both the 350 and 365 hp 440's. 1967 to 1971 C-body 440 HP's have identical specs to those used in B and E bodies. They are ID'd the same way and share the same VIN designations with the other bodies. 440 HP's were not available in wagons. You could get dual exhaust with a dual snorkel air cleaner, but only the std cam, and they usually had the standard exhaust manifolds too. Strangely, if you ordered a 383 4 barrel in a wagon, you usually got dual exhausts with the HP manifolds. 440 HP equipped C-bodies are fairly rare. Probably way less than 1 out of 100 had the 440 HP.
Joined: Thu Oct 13 2005, 08:23PM
Location: Beautiful Down Town Roebuck Ontario
Posts: 227
Friend of mine had a 69 T/C with a 440HP as in HP block. I don't think it was a 375 horse tho because it had a Holley carb but it had the roller timing chain, 6pak rods and a windage tray.
twostick wrote ... Friend of mine had a 69 T/C with a 440HP as in HP block. I don't think it was a 375 horse tho because it had a Holley carb but it had the roller timing chain, 6pak rods and a windage tray.
That was the 375 horsepower package. My grandfather had the 440 HP (sans the six pack rods) in his '68 T&C. There is some confusion about wether wagons had HP engines or not because (according to my collection of 65-73 FSM's and Motors Manuals) Mopar offered five big block engines in C bodies from 1968-70:
(1) 383 2bbl/290 horse, 256* cam (2) 383 4bbl/300 horse, 256* cam, dual exhaust (not used in Chryslers) (3) 383 4bbl/330 horse HP, 268* cam (335 horse in B bodies) (4) 440 4bbl/350 horse, 256* cam (5) 440 4bbl/375 horse HP 268* cam
<span class='smallblacktext'>[ Edited Fri Oct 08 2010, 01:38AM ]</span>
Joined: Fri May 18 2007, 04:59PM
Location: Vegas
Posts: 82
wrote ...
There is some confusion about wether wagons had HP engines or not because (according to my collection of 65-73 FSM's and Motors Manuals) Mopar offered five big block engines in C bodies from 1968-70:
(1) 383 2bbl/290 horse, 256* cam (2) 383 4bbl/300 horse, 256* cam, dual exhaust (not used in Chryslers) (3) 383 4bbl/330 horse HP, 268* cam (335 horse in B bodies) (4) 440 4bbl/350 horse, 256* cam (5) 440 4bbl/375 horse HP 268* cam
I'm not certain, but I don't believe that the 375 engine was available in wagons.
However, your list excludes the 350 horse coded 440 that was quite common, which had dual exhaust w/HP exhaust manifolds, twin snorkel air cleaner, but 350 horse cam. I believe that this was part of a towing package, but I can't say for sure, however everyone I have run across had a towing package on it.
This was common enough that the market is still rich in cheap used HP exhaust manifolds, particularly the drivers side (which was unique to the C bodies). Much more common than what would be coming off HP engines (the passenger side was the same as a Roadrunner style HP manifold).
To throw another wrench into the works, some of the 350 horse, dual HP exhaust, dual snorkel engines were painted orange just like the TNT engines. They just didn't have the TNT pie tin on the air cleaner, and were coded as a 350 horse engine.
My 69 300 vert came this way, and I had a 70 300 4 dr. at one time that was this way also.
Why? I can't say, but at least in the case of my 69, I was only the second owner, and I knew everyone at the dealership, including the owner (I even worked there as a lot boy at one time). And no one knew why.
I always assumed that they just installed the 350 horse cam in an HP motor to achieve the higher - low RPM torque for towing, but I did a valve job several years ago and the springs were not HP springs, so that assumption was wrong (not to mention that the pad was not stamped as HP).
I think this confusion with different block colour-cam-exhaust manifold (etc.) combinations was caused by insufficient quality control at the assembly line. - A combination of poor quality control, recurrent strikes, and indifferent workers; these caused all sorts of mishap. Anything could happen. - My late father's '70 New Yorker 4-door HT (i.e. CH43) came with a VIN plate CH41 (a Sedan plate), just to give one example. I've read somewhere, that in the spring of 1970 a batch of some 200 Chryslers left the assembly line with no underbody rust-proofing treatment whatsover, and at about the same time, another batch of base-equipped New Yorkers nobody had ever ordered left the line, just out of "accident". (Correct me if this is a misconception.)
Actually...one little known fact about some special 1969 Polara C body's with the 375 hp 440....were that they were the fastest of the whole lineup of mopars of that time period,...and i'm talkin' 440 6bbls and even hemi's.Even the Daytonas and the Superbird had a tough time with this one! Anyone wanna' guess?. We are talking top end speed here.I think Kraut knows this one.
Oh Yeah, the '69 Fury/Polara CHP Police Pursuits with the ''special" 440 - they would do 149 mph right from the factory before we even tinkered with them.
The patrol men used to tell us the story about when officer Storment caught a hemi powered Super Bee that blew past him going about 150 mph while he was eating his lunch on the side of the road. Storment was clocked by airplane at just a shade over 165 mph during the 30 mile chase--that was one bad ass car.
We never knew just how much power that thing was putting out because our dyno was done by 550 hp and that one went right off the end of the dial. (Most of the CHP "special" engines we had were over 500 hp out of the crate.)
<span class='smallblacktext'>[ Edited Thu Dec 09 2010, 05:39PM ]</span>