Joined: Wed Oct 12 2005, 01:10AM
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 2690
Thanks for the info 71F3, that sounds exactly what I want to do!! I use my fury as a daily driver and want to keep it that way, would love to just get in and turn the key and have her fire right up and then get great gas mileage too, I'm getting 10-12 mpg right now with 130K on the ol' 318.
Why go for the 5.2 and not the 5.9?? Better fuel economy?? 5.2's are probably cheaper too.
Did you get the truck out of the paper, auction or wrecking yard??
Since your going to be doing what I want to do as well I'm sure I'll pummell you with questions until you cry!!!
Joined: Sat Dec 10 2005, 04:28PM
Location: United States
Posts: 4954
It's been a while since I shared the progress on the Polara. But for those who want to do a magnum with the 518 trans, I have some good news. We're 10 weeks into the project.
First the progress. The rear is back together with a new gas tank, rear springs, Fuel line for the injection, Complete new brakes- bled and ready, and the addition of a sway bar. The car is back on the ground. The engine is at the shop, to be redone with new pistons, but found a cracked block. . so we're stalled there until I find another one. The trans is torn down and all the sub assemblies and Over drive unit is done and upgraded. The computer wiring is isolated and just needs to be put in and harnessed. So much progress has been made. The whole bottom has been pressure washed, treated and sprayed with a generous coating of rust inhibitors. I am going to re-under coat it and rust proof the frame rails and so on in the near future. I'd have that done if I didn't keep tripping over interuptions. . . .
Magnum install. . .EASIER than I thought!!! Yesterday I put the old engine in with the empty trans housing. Put the drive shaft from a 71 Fury in which is 2 inches shorter than the Polara shaft. (120" wheel base vs. 122") The trans is 2" longer than the 727 Torqueflite. So the Plymouth shaft fit perfectly! That's solved. The exhaust manifolds from the D150 and the Y Pipe, fit right in.
Unlike the articles I read, the B bodys need extensive floor modifications. With the drive shaft laser lined up, all we need to do is make a half an inch additional clearence in 1 two inch spot on the drivers side, and take off about 1/2 an inch of the casting on the passenger side. That spot is non-structural, so it's easier than pounding on the floor boards.
So far the most difficult thing with be the trans mount. We have to make an extensive modification to that. We have a couple of different ideas. . . . But we have a plan. The speed sensor will fit but we need to modify the speedo cable with a smaller end. We're using a speedo sensor from an 90 Dakota so I can use the original speedometer.
So far, it's a drop in. The only gray area is the hood height. I may have to add a bulge or a hood scoop to clear the air cleaner, or maybe have to use a setup like the Dakotas had where the Air cleaner is remote. If I do that, I will put in a cold air system. I got some pics, but they aren't that great and don't say much. But I will have some in the next week or so.
Over all? The worst part was dealing with the rust on the chassis parts. Everything has been bead blasted or sand blasted and repainted. Better than new. It's supposed to go to the body shop at the end of the month. Then to the exhaust shop, Then to the alighnment shop, then to the best part of all. Interior.
We're figuring this thing will be getting 26 to 28 on the highway when done, and rip the doors off most of that Plastic Junk that's rolling aroiund out there.
More to come. . . . .
<span class='smallblacktext'>[ Edited Sun May 14 2006, 01:32PM ]</span>
71F3 wrote ... It's been a while since I shared the progress on the Polara. But for those who want to do a magnum with the 518 trans, I have some good news. We're 10 weeks into the project...
Unlike the articles I read, the B bodys need extensive floor modifications. With the drive shaft laser lined up, all we need to do is make a half an inch additional clearence in 1 two inch spot on the drivers side, and take off about 1/2 an inch of the casting on the passenger side. That spot is non-structural, so it's easier than pounding on the floor boards.
WOOOOOOOO-HOOOOOOOOO!!!!
That's GREAT news! I want to put a 518 in my SF in the worst way, and have been really put off by the prospect of cutting on an original car. It didn't even occur to me that with the subframe arrangement the way it is in a C, the stress at the t-bar crossmember is a non-issue. No floor-mounted crossmember in a C, and the dang t-bars are so much longer anyway it's GOT to help. I'm REALLY looking forward to some pics of the install!
Thanks for documenting this project. I think the Mag engines are grossly underrated for potential C-barge powerplants. The trick, like you say, is getting the intake to fit under the hood. That beer keg intake is really tall, like 2" taller than a big single plane intake, and that eats up a lot of space. I hope you get it all to work nice and clean.
Joined: Sat Dec 10 2005, 04:28PM
Location: United States
Posts: 4954
Well Clare, there is an issue on the cross member, but it can be overcome with a little bit of welding.
We figure on using the original plate mount from the trans and maybe using the mount from a Dakota/Durango. It's a thin pancake style and will have to bolt to the cross member. The two inner bolts on the right half of the cross member will have to be moved over about two inches, but easily replaced with Nuts and bolts. We are going to V into the top of the cross member to keep as much original steel in place as possible. Then fill it in with some plate. We think if we span the width on both bottom edges, with some 3/4 angle iron, we can put the strength back in to keep the T Bar mounts from flexing. Looking at this, we think this will be more than enough.
It's not going to take much to modify the trans mount. . . I'll try to document it for you and save some dimensions for you.
As far as the floor is concerned, in a bit more detail. . .Right where the tunnel tapers down it's about 1/4" away from the trans on the drivers side. To allow torquing, we're going to smack the floor a few times with a hammer. All we need is an additional 1/2", giving us 3/4" total. Plenty. On the right side, there is a PTO shifter mount that has two bolt mounts in it. We're going to just cut off 1/2 and inch to give us the same 3/4 inch. As far as floor mods are concerned, that's it. 1 Minute with a 5 Pounder Never even see it.
In your case, on the drive shaft, you'll have to shorten the shaft 2". The Polara Wheel base is 122" and the Fury is 120". The 518 is 2" longer than the 727. It all worked out. I had a spare Fury shaft here and it was perfect! Seal falls right where it was originally and still plenty of stroke available. The Polara shaft fit, but it was sunk all the way in.
I say "we". My buddy TJ is the Dodge guy. Works for the local dealer. He has never done anything like this before so he is intregued as I am. He has all the tools and instruments to get this drive shaft angle set just right. When we sighted it out yesterday, we were dead nuts on out of the box. All we had to do was shift the trans over 1" and hit it by eye. It was real easy. Since you have the ability and the knowledge, you'll have no trouble at all.
If I can give you the dimensions of the mods to the cross member, you won't even have to gauge it! Talking about making the job easy. . . . .
We started to build the mount tonight. But we can't use this setup because the frame is not part of the floor pan back there like it is on the A & B Bodies. But we have a plan. I need to go get some steel tomorrow
Joined: Sat Dec 10 2005, 04:28PM
Location: United States
Posts: 4954
Wish I could Spell Clare Correctly. Sorry I see I changed your gender.
Anywho. . .We're still working on the trans mount. Plan 1 was scrapped. Plan 2 seems to be working. We're going to finish it tomorrow and put it in for the final fitting.
You mentioned you wanted to put the 518 on your car with an adaptor. Do you happen to know how thick the adaptor is? If you go back much firther than the stock position, you'll have to make more room on the floor on the drivers side. Not much, but enough. If our mount works, you will be able to use the same mount we made. I have the dimensions. I'll take a couple of Pix's for you tomorrow.
Heavy Sucker
Steve
<span class='smallblacktext'>[ Edited Fri May 19 2006, 08:57PM ]</span>
Joined: Sat Dec 10 2005, 04:28PM
Location: United States
Posts: 4954
Hi All, and this is also a follow up on Wishy Washy Steering.
Well the project is moving along. (I'll post some pics when I am at the other pooter)
Today, we completed the trans mount. Except for some touch up in the holes, it's done and ready to be re-blasted, treated and painted.
Thinking about what Bill said in the other thread, we looked this thing over pretty good. When putting in the trans mount, we had to jack up the frame on the drivers side, the adjusters are all the way out. (Bill it's still sagging about an inch.) The trans mount went right in, we blew some holes in to mount the trans to 2 Cheeby Pickup mounts. Simple. We gauged out the drive shaft with an Inclinometer and got the shaft to 1.5 degrees, Max allowed is 3 degrees. We were off 3/16 so we added a small plate to compensate. Perfect.
All we have to do is beat about 2" of the floor in about 1/2 and inch in to allow for torquing and shave a little off the tail shaft in a non-structural spot.
In doing this, My buddy tells me that the A500 is made for the 318's. Any Dodge Van should have that. It's a 904 platform but the tail shaft/OD unit is smaller in diameter. That too is coupled to a Magnum 318. You might be able to get away with a stock 360 on the A500. (Now he tells me. . .I could have had a van cheaper)
<span class='smallblacktext'>[ Edited Sat May 20 2006, 03:53PM ]</span>
Joined: Sat Dec 10 2005, 04:28PM
Location: United States
Posts: 4954
9 Weeks later. . . . It looks like the engine and trans will be in, bolted up, by next weekend.
Trust me. . .plenty of thought was put into this. By layering the bottom and tieing everything together, it will be planty strong to hold the T Bars from flexing. There's 4- 3/16 pieces of steel plate in the cross member, including the mount plate. We developed a slight bow in it and decided to try to press it out. Uhh Huh. . . 50 tons later maybe. . .
We're using 2 very simple trans mounts from a Chevy Pick up. They are 1 1/8" high, have a steel plate on one side. I'm just going to bolt right through the plate, mounts and to the trans. A bit of lock-tite and a lock washer and we're off.
The drive shaft angle settled at 1.5 Drgrees. 3 Degreese is allowed. Except for flattening a 2" spot on the floor, it's ready to take the trans.
Lotsa work here. Took 8 hours to build a mount, the first one didn't work. We were trying to make a tunnel deal, but discovered we didn't have the room. So we decided to make a real beafy bottom. Total weight is 42 pounds.
<span class='smallblacktext'>[ Edited Sat May 20 2006, 05:41PM ]</span>
Joined: Sat Dec 10 2005, 04:28PM
Location: United States
Posts: 4954
Well Bill! You're not going to like the results. Darn near broke my heart to do what I had to do. . . But the results were an major improvement.
As you know, I had the torsion bar relaxed. We plled the engine out last night and have it ready to install the new one, which will be this weekend. I'll have a fresh recored Rad Friday, so it appears that I am all set with everything I need to start it.
The T bar still had some load on it. For the life of me I have yet to figure out how I even put it together! It wouldn't come out. So I disconnected the upper BJ, Still not enough. Loosened the sway bar, shock and strut rod, still no. Tried to take the Strut Rod out. Nope! WACO! (We aint comin out) I ran into a stone wall. So I got out a strap wrench and tried to knock it back. No way. Finally, out of disgust, and it getting dark and damp, I got the hot wrench out and cut the yeepin' thing Out. As I heated the bar, I watched it relax. Damage was done so I finished it.
Put the knuckle back together, slipped the station wagon/big block bar in there, finished it up, put it down, Done and normal. The right side was much simpler. Bar slid out, put the matching bar in and done.
Weird. <span class='smallblacktext'>[ Edited Tue May 23 2006, 08:38PM ]</span>
Holy smokes! That is one battleship friggin' mount! Appears to be necessary though, so better safe than sagging (allways a good idea). Since I'd be hooking a 518 behind my 440, I'd need an adapter, which I *THINK* is about an inch thick. Not 100% sure on that, since I haven't researched it TOO much yet. A thinner adapter would be better, but I don't know if that's possible at this point. I've got a bit of work to do before I start to worry much about that, though. Until I actually DRIVE the thing, the mileage isn't really an issue...