Joined: Sat Dec 10 2005, 04:28PM
Location: United States
Posts: 4954
For the life of me I can't find the thread I started about trying to achieve a firmer feel on the steering and imporve the steering stability. So we'll start a new one.
Thank you Scott. You pointed my head in the right direction on the steering and this is what I came up with. And a special thanks to Butch for pointing me in a general direction too.
According to Moog, the idler and pitman are the same for the the passanger and Police cars. It also appears the steering box is the same. Having looked into this I talked to a few friends of mine that have later cars, and drove a 74 Fury this morning. Even with the front end worn out on that rot box, the steering was more stable. So much for the preamble.
It turns out the 74 Cop Cars had a different Pitman and Idler than the passenger. The steering box is still the same! I called my parts guy, who is in his 70's. Been buying from him for 20 years. He used to supply the town garage with their parts and the town police drove 74 Plymys. He had an Idler, in stock, but will order the pitman for me. While they fit, the arch is slightly different and about 1/4 of an inch shorter than the 72 idler.
So it looks like the arch in the 74 parts will give the steering a bit more stability. That 1/4 inch may mean something too. We're changing the geometry of the steering and not loosing the boost it gives. Coupled with the new front end, steering box, rear sway bar and I may have something here.
Scott also mentioned he got an after market front sway bar for his Plymouth. I called PST this morning, but they don't have one. Where can I get a front sway bar for a 72 Polara? I'd be interested in a set of torsion bars for this too.
Joined: Tue Oct 11 2005, 01:33AM
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 5893
Maybe its all relative, my car has monster T-bars and a front sway bar, so yes the steering is quick but it isn't what I'd call "Wishy Washy". If fact I quite like the "Super Power Steering", easy to park and goes where you point it. Maybe you just need to beef up the front end?
Joined: Sat Dec 10 2005, 04:28PM
Location: United States
Posts: 4954
Yep that's the plan. . . . I have been trying to find a heavy front torsion bar set and/or a heavier sway bar. Since this is a pure luxury street application, I wanted to upgrade the suspension a bit. Basically an old farts car who is going through a second childhood. LOL
I did buy a new set of rear springs, 4 leaf, with the leaves made of the next grade steel from stock. I also have a rear sway bar from PST.
Actually, I was thinking of finding a set of torsion bars for a big block, (If they are different than the small block versions) and letting it go that way with a new heavier sway bar. For the life of me, I could never figure out how they expected these sway bars to work efficiently with those 4" stand offs from the frame. I never liked them. . . I was hoping the aftermarket was better <span class='smallblacktext'>[ Edited Sat Apr 08 2006, 06:20PM ]</span>
Joined: Tue Oct 11 2005, 01:33AM
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 5893
For '70 Fury T-bars from the 70 Fury Shop Manual
6 cyl - 44" x 0.96 318 - 44" x 0.98 383 - 44" x 0.94 440, police - 44" x 0.98 wagons - 44" x 0.94
I've no idea why the 318 and 440 used the same bar, nor why the 383 bar was smaller than the 6 cyl. Plus the wagon is a surprise, I'd expected it to be much heavier. Doesn't make a lot of sense.
Joined: Sat Dec 10 2005, 04:28PM
Location: United States
Posts: 4954
Now there's one for the books. Maybe the thinner ones have more torque? We're both engineers so this one takes the cake. I would love to be a fly and sit on the shoulder of some of these automotive engineers shoulders. . . . But on the other hand, you can't argue with success.
I guess I am better off with the ones I have then. I have a 360 and it's getting, actually, a slighter lighter Magnum 5.2. So now all I need is a better sway bar.
Oh Yeah THANKS BILL!
<span class='smallblacktext'>[ Edited Sat Apr 08 2006, 07:34PM ]</span>
Joined: Fri Oct 14 2005, 07:26PM
Location: Pittsburgh,PA
Posts: 481
Steve, you could send out your box to Steer and Gear in Ohio, they can rebuild your to one of 3 firmness level above the Cop Box, that should help things out;
Couple Thoughts: I think just about everyone is reselling Addco sway bars. A quick check on their site shows a rear, but no front sways for 71-78 Full Size Dodges. Odd. So the question becomes, What is different between 70 and 71 in the relationship between the frame, strut rods and control arms?
The big T-bars I have on my Fury which was originally a 318, came out of a 4dr 318. The 4dr had a weld mark on the subframe where the sway bracket should have gone. I figured they started to make it a cop car and changed their mind, removing the bracket but leaving the t-Bars. However, there might be more to this based on Bill's post. The ironic thing is I had that 4 dr for a year and never bothered to check them, asuming a 4dr 318 would have the little bars.
You will want to start scouring 74 Dodge and Plymouths for some big bars. They go up to 1.06! I went from .94 to .98 with a very nice difference. But I am still watching for some big 1974's!
Joined: Sat Dec 10 2005, 04:28PM
Location: United States
Posts: 4954
Ahh HAH! While you were asleep, I did some research. There are actually three different grades and I got the ID numbers. I happen to have the ones I need that were spares, laying out here for about a year from a 71 Plymy 318 car. Odd, the 360 Car uses the same ones as the big block, .94. But I do have a set of .98's here.
