Hi guys,new here,Charlie is the name.I'm so new I still got the new mopar smell.Hey,I picked up on a 1972 413 with what I can only believe to be a 727 tranny.The tranny has a ebrake,the motor has a heffer sized waterpump and huge I'm talkin big waterpump hoses.O K I found out that I have a truck engine.Is the truck engine compatable with 440 external parts such as waterpump etc.?What is the physical diff in size and would it be any more complicated using this as a canidate for an engine swap?I have a70 300 droptop but I want to put this particular motor in my 59 Plymouth,whichis a large bodied car which requires a large amount of torq,and there ain t nothing wrong with a little extra.What is the actual horsepower and torq rating?Any help would be greatly appriciated.Thanks Charlie
Joined: Sat Mar 25 2006, 07:31PM
Location: Nebo, NC
Posts: 86
Welcome aboard, Charlie!
I don't know how much help I can be except as devil's advocate. The combination of 413 cid and tranny-mounted e-brake souds more like late-1958 (59?) - 62 passenger car than anything produced in 1972. Are you sure about that YOM? Could it be a passenger car set-up that was "field-installed" as a replacement in the '72 motorhome because it was the only package which would come close to matching the requirements of the RV? Is the tranny set up for the pushbutton cable shift, or is it some other system? And is the tranny pan shaped the same as '62-up 727s, or does it have a different "footprint"? The '61-back "727s" were very different trannys (I think they were cast iron) and used a completely different pan.
If the shift cable arrangement is compatible I would think that what you have is ideal for use in your '59, but perhaps some of the more knowledgable Dry Dockers will weigh in on this. Does anyone know if Dodge Truck Division was still installing 413s and tranny e-brakes into their chassis in '72?
The trans is called a Loadflite. Brake on tailshaft is stock. Lot of different stuff on engine: exhaust valve rotators, different cooling design(water pump mates to block AND front of cylinder heads), timing gears(maybe,have seen both gears and chains from this era). Stock compression is 7.5 to 1. These engines were not designed to make a lot of power. They were set up to run at 40-60% rated power ALL DAY LONG, hence the different cooling system and heads. Sorry I can't help with your swap questions as I have never contemplated using one of these engines in a car.
Joined: Sat Dec 10 2005, 04:28PM
Location: United States
Posts: 4954
All of this is correct info. The tail shaft ebrake was used up to 1982, when Chrysler stopped providing chassis for Mo Homes. It was used because a rear parking brake was not practicle because of the lengths involved. So much cable there the manufacturers could not compensate for stretch in the cables.
you will also find the head gaskets are different. You can mate external components to the 440, I know for sure. They make beautiful power houses if you do the cam. But other than that, the compression ratio is lower than car engines. If rebuilding, you will have to do a piston change to get the ratio up. If I remember, they were in the 7:1 range back then as they were in th elater years.
As far as removing the eBrake off the back of the trans, if you want too, i suggest you take all the hardware off and leave it. Not sure if the Loadflite tail shaft is different with a conventional trans or not. But I can say it is one tough trans! Introduced 900 HP to one in a redone Mo Home 440 several years ago. Untouched, the trans is still pitting grooves into pavement some 60 thousand miles later. But if rebuilding the Loadflite, make sure you specify it when buying parts.
Edit- - - - OOPs!!! Welcome to CBody! Don't be bashful to pipe up and visit often.
Joined: Sun Feb 05 2006, 11:51PM
Location: Pa
Posts: 3064
Hi Charlie, welcome to the Dock! The pushbutton e-brake trannies were made in cast iron up to 61. In 62 they still had the e-brake and were aluminum. 1963 did away with the e-brake on the tailshaft. Pushbuttons ruled until the end of 64. In 1965 Chrysler used a cable operated shifter on the trans and went to lever operation in 1966. All of this is passenger car stuff. The first Dodge motorhomes were built in 1962 on their schoolbus chassis. The best way to find out what engine you have is to get all of the numbers that you can find and post them for your fellow Dockers to research. Some places to look are on the block just above the oil pan rails, the pad next to the distributor on the front of the engine, and down behind the waterpump in the entrance to the area under the intake manifold. Also, take a valvecover off, get the casting numbers on the heads and see if the rockershafts are on seperate aluminum pedestals or bolted directly on casting of the head. Also, look for any numbers on the transmission. BTW new Mopar smell is MUCH better that musty old GM or Ford smell
Joined: Wed Oct 12 2005, 02:26PM
Location: canada
Posts: 6
charley, i have the same 413 and 727 as you, also from a motorhome. the tailshaft (output shaft and extension housing) is shorter than one in a car, the mount is about 3" to far forward, and the (huge) yoke and u joint is held on with a big nut, instead of slipping into the tail shaft like a car. i just finished swapping tailshafts , it was really easy. a factory service manual really helped tho...the whole trans has to be disassembled to get at the output shaft. the bonus is that there are 4 pinion planetaries in there. as for the 413, the casting number is up top at the back, by the oil sending unit(s). the truck block is extra thick, called the cold weather block. and the bores supposedly can be bored out to 440 size. mine has a six bolt crank, that will bolt up to a car transmission. good score! btw, anybody in the vancouver b.c. area, my 413 is for sale. i heard it running before we pulled it, no knocks or smoke. <span class='smallblacktext'>[ Edited Fri Apr 07 2006, 11:01AM ]</span>
Joined: Wed Oct 12 2005, 02:26PM
Location: canada
Posts: 6
yep, steel crank. the balancer is truck specific, and the timing cover. and of course the oil pan. it also has the mounting boss in the front, behind the ps pump, that the big block a body guys want to go with their 67-69 a body k frame. i should put this in the for sale section, but i need $400 for it. back to your thread charlie, when i compared the 413 intake to the one on my 440, it looks about 3/4" lower at the carb base, if hood clearance on a 59 is a problem. although thinking back to my buddy daves '59 regent, there is lot's of room. he's putting a 383 3 speed manual in his, i say he should do it to the 59 belvedere wagon (suburban?) he has instead...but the reeeg was his first daily driver finned car so... don't know what your budget is, but some thin steel headgaskets on that 413, with some early small chamber b engine heads, with a tight cam and that motorhome electronic distributor might get her movin' away from the stoplight alright. good luck! oh yeah, one last thing, did you grab that cool shifter off of the dash?i did, it's got a pentastar on it, and a light. i just have to builds a box for it now! http://groups.msn.com/theserenityweinerdog/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=109 <span class='smallblacktext'>[ Edited Sat Apr 08 2006, 01:33AM ]</span>
Thanks for all the feedback,no I didn t get the shifter,got it at a swap meet.Would anyone know the hp and torq ratings stock?And what is the potential with higher compression cam and carb.It s got these huge killer exaust manifolds,like cast iron header,4 into 1.Would it accept a 440 intake?This has to be a high torq motor to be moving a motorhome around.This was a spontaniouos purchase.I wanted a 413 for my car cause it was more period correct than a 440.I ve got my car done up vintage stock car theme,Richard Petty to be exact.and I got The Man himself to autograph it.But having the poly 318 in it,it can t grt out of it s own way.I did find a 354 3rd member and it does scoot along a lot better.The only burnout I can do is with a little help from a bottle of water on a hot southern nite.Wellgot to run to spray my parents house,we are still deep into rebuilding after hurricane Katrina.I was able to jack my car up enuff to save it,so that was cool.Lots of people lot tons of cars.We re talkin cars sitting under 5 to 15 feet of water for a week or more(salt water).A lot of cars are gone forever.Got to go,thanks for all of your input guys,and I know there are some Mopar gals out there ,Thanke again Charlie
Welcome to CBody! Don't be bashful to pipe up and visit often. 
