Joined: Mon Oct 10 2005, 12:14PM
Location: Rochester IN
Posts: 152
I get to start my 440 . Mama said so! So now I have to pick my parts.
I got 3 sets of heads, 915, 906, 452. All have to be rebuilt, and all are bone stock. For a mild street motor which one would be better? E-heads will have to wait. I like the idea of closed camber heads, but what about the soft seats? I loaded the flow # from Mopar Muscle into my desk top and the 906 came out better. The problem is figuring out compression. I want to go with a flat top piston. I would like to keep it around 10.5 -1.
I have 2 blocks to choose from, a 78, cast crank, broke pistons(3 are broke above the top ring), block needs to be bored due to rust pitting(hope +30 will clean it up, maybe +40).
The second is a bone stock 67 440 still running, but needs rebuilt. I don't think it needs bored, and oil psi is ok. It has a bad cam and the lifters have some unusual ware on them.
I was looking at the Voodoo cams by Lunati (grind 60304). If I go with the 78 block I was thinking a stroker since I don't want to use a cast crank, and need pistons with better rods.
Open to sugestions Thanks for the help.
P.S. I was looking at 440source.com for the parts. Good, bad, ugly? <span class='smallblacktext'>[ Edited ]</span>
Joined: Mon Oct 31 2005, 12:48PM
Location: Bakersfield, California
Posts: 1755
The open vs. closed head debate still goes on, but any good head shop should be able to install hard seats. If you were in my area I'd send you to a shop in Pismo Beach which does the majority of ehads in the BAkersfield area.
Joined: Mon Oct 10 2005, 12:14PM
Location: Rochester IN
Posts: 152
O.K which combo would be the better choice? I know opinions are like noses, everybody has one, and they all smell, but I need help!
From the parts listed, if they were yours and all you had to work with, what would you pick? This is for my 69 Fury and won't see the strip, but I love being the old man that stomps the HS kids on Saturday night. The stroker will not help HP, but adds a lot torque for a lot of $$$.? Is a stroker worth the money? I am most concerned with the bottom end, but I need to use one of the heads I got.
Snotty, Are you sugesting the 516's?
What about the cam?
Thanks for the feedback. <span class='smallblacktext'>[ Edited Tue Feb 07 2006, 02:40PM ]</span>
Joined: Sat Dec 10 2005, 04:28PM
Location: United States
Posts: 4954
Pocket Book suggestion? Have the machine shop clean out the ports and smooth them up for better air flow. Scotty is right, the hardened seat debate goes on. Since RB's tend to run hot, it's an addition you may want to consider. Especially if you plan on driving it allot.
Cam? Mild cam, maybe a step over the factory grind. Suggest Comp Cams. They have the ability of grinding what you need.
If you want to really do something that will make it run really nice, without dropping a first born, go with the fuel injection. Throttle body will be fine. However I suggest you go the extra couple of hundred and put in the electronic timing control as well. That will make all the difference in the world. I have my 360 running like a 383+ right now, and it's getting pretty stingy on gas too. Last clocked it at 20 around town. WOW! I'm still tweaking it
If you decide to go with Fuel Injection, CHANGE THE STARTER TO THE HIGH TORQUE" I learned a lesson with that. Took me 5 months to figure out what was wrong with it. I used the Holley Commander 950. You will need a 750 CFM. Complete kit is around 1400. Get the linkage adaptor. I got a distributor done up by Dave Ray. He is very reasonable and knows the systems well.
Joined: Sat Oct 22 2005, 07:55PM
Location: ILLINOIS
Posts: 63
I WOULD BUILD A STANDARD 440 IF YOUR USING THE FACTORY HEADS A 500 STROKER WOULD BE BETTER WITH AFTERMARKET HEADS. IF YOU BUILDING A TOTALLY BUCKS DOWN MOTOR TAKE THE 67 440 TAKE IT APART AND CHECK THE BORES FOR WEAR AND TAPER. IF IN SPECS, CHECK THE PISTONS AND RODS TO SEE IF THER REUSABLE,THEN CHECK THE BLOCK FOR OTHER PROBLEMS TAKE THE RIDGE OFF THE TOPS OF CYLINDERS AND HONE THE BLOCK TO DEGLAZE THE CYLINDERS. THEN CLEAN EVERYTHING BLOW OUT ALL HOLES WITH AIR ETC. GET NEW MOLY PISTON RINGS STANDARD OR FILE FIT YOUR CHOICE. MAKE SURE YOU CLEAN OUT THE CRUD FROM THE PISTON RING LANDS SOAK IN CARD CLEANER OR USE A BROKEN OLD RING TO SCRAPE OUT THE RING LANDS. ON THE HEADS 452 ORDER A REDONE SET FROM AEROHEAD $599 WITH 2.14 1.81 STAINLESS VALVES. PORT THEM YOUSELF OR PAY THEM TO.USE THE FACTORY STEEL SHIM HEAD GASKET WORKS GREAT DOSENT LOWER COMPRESSION LIKE A THICK AFTERMAKET HEAD GASKET. REUSE YOUR PUSHRODS AND ROCKERS AND SHAFTS IF GOOD.USE A CAM WITH ABOUT 455 LIFT. THIS IS A BUCKS DOWN BUILD UP.
Joined: Tue Oct 11 2005, 07:54PM
Location: Ypsilanti,MI
Posts: 128
Use either block,which ever will clean up the nicest.Might as well use the steel crank as long as you got it(nothing wrong with a cast crank in this application).Heads,I've always liked the 452's.Ran them on my 68 Barracuda,had big valves put in,touched up the ports,ran 10.50's.Since your going to buy pistons,you can pick your comp ratio.I run the mopar 484 cam in my Newport,no complaints.Good sounding idle,15"of vacuum at idle in gear and the performance is not bad either.Roger
If you need to stick to a budget, do it in stages.
I went ahead and had my block completely gone through, hot tanked, magna fluxed, bored and decked. The steel crank had spun a bearing, so it was welded and repaied. I then got the 440 Source H-Beam rods and Keith Black Flat Top pistons. The machine shop put together the lower end balanced out the rotating assembly.
The cam was in good shape, although was of unknown origin. The heads were 71 346's, and the iron intake was used. Got new lifter from 440 source. I tried to use the stock carter but it blew chunks. The 440 had been in a truck, so I needed a different water pump housing, got an aluminum housing from 440 Source also. So everything that was done was stuff that would have been done no matter what heads, cam or intake was used.
The plan is to get the motor up over the 500 hp, so E-heads are on the list as is a undecided top end. So we concentrated on doing all the lowerend stuff right, so we wouldn't need to pull the motor again. And then I can come back this year with more money and finish out the top end in the car. So as it stands right now, it is slightly more powerful than factory due to the flat top pistons, decking and headers.
I now am free to do what ever I want to the top and not worry about pulling the motor or redoing anything. I had bought a new Edelbrock Thunder AVS carb, but it would be appropriate for just about any single carb setup and even if I decide to go more elaborate, I can always use it on one of my other vehicles.
The 346's are a open chamber with semi hardened exhaust seats (I think). They were just cleaned up, reseated, and got some new springs. I only put about $175 into them, so no big deal to get the car up and running.
As for the soft seats on the 915 and 906, it is a common theory that the seats do gain some hardening from the nearly 40 yrs of extreme heat and should be just fine for normal street use by now.
Joined: Mon Oct 10 2005, 01:49PM
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 421
I agree with the whole do it in stages thing.
Bottom end first, worry about the rest later.
Use whatever block cleans up better.
440 source crank and rods. SRP makes some nice fairly decent forged pistons, set it up for zero deck.
As for the heads, sell the 915's and the 906's and get a mild clean up and use the 452's.
The cubic inches are gonna eat up duration, the 484 that Roger will sound almost stock in that sucker. If the rest of the drivetrain is stock, or reasonably so, I'd stay under 0.500 lift and 290 ish duration...but goin to much the other way is almost as bad imo.
Performer RPM on top with a 800+ cfm carb of your choice and your gonna be ripping trees out of the ground.
THen when the cash allows, throw whatever heads you want on top...
Take both blocks to the machine shop and have them pick. My first block (71) needed the cylinders bored, a line bore and had a small surface crack in the side wall of the valley that showed up on magnaflux. It was going to be $200 to line bore and $150 to braze the crack. We found a bare 69 block for $200 that didn't need line bored, so I saved $150 and now have a spare 440 block that is clean and I know exactly what it needs.
It was only $150 to hot tank, clean the passages, check the tolerances and magnaflux.
. Mama said so! So now I have to pick my parts.
