Joined: Fri Jan 23 2015, 04:44PM
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 2
I am in the process of doing a performance build on a 68 Fury III I am definitely adding disc brakes and am in search of a 73 C body to get the LCAs and spindles Ill need to use factory But this is not easy to find.
So I am evaluating other options and SSBC kit is outside of my budget. I came across ECI whose solution is to have hubs that retain the existing spindles and use GM calipers.
This SEEMS to be the best solve for the $ on paper.
But I hesitate to make this purchase before hearing from those with experience.
so- does anyone out there have any experience with the ECI kit ? good, bad or otherwise?
Also - how about other options that are under $1100 (SSBC)
Joined: Wed Nov 17 2010, 03:28PM
Location: florida
Posts: 1311
try murray park for spindles.i got a set from him last year.i had an ssbc kit on my 66 but feel it was designed for lighter cars which the kelsey hayes type calipers were originally used on.cant comment on eci kit.i use 73 discs with first gen viper/brembo calipers now.
Joined: Mon Oct 10 2005, 10:24AM
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 160
I've read quite some compaints on SSBC stuff that brake-performance wasn't as good as the hoped for, and in some cases just plain bad because of mismatched components.
I've seen the ECI stuff for some years now but never really saw any actuall installations or reviews. Personally I don't care for using GM stuff when Mopar-parts can still fit the bill.
Myself I've retrofitted '73 rotors and calipers on pretty much all my Mopars with homemade caliper-adapters.
Joined: Fri Aug 05 2011, 08:06PM
Location: Brisbane Australia
Posts: 132
If you search back through the posts, there is a way to use the 69-72 setup as well, a bit more involved with the discs as you have to use the old hubs with D200 rotors and new studs as the old rotors arnt actually readily available, but doable and more available as ppl dont want them. The later caliper with the 3" piston will bolt up for even better results
you dont need the lca's just the spindle and caliper mounts and hubs - calipers you can get anywhere, rock auto are cheap
Apart from weight you will not do better than the factory stuff without 6 pot brembos or something similar - the kit your looking at probably has thinner discs - the 13" option may be a bit better, but either will run you twice or more of what you will spend on the factory stuff
Joined: Wed Aug 11 2010, 10:15AM
Location: E WA
Posts: 1230
Alchemi wrote ...
If you search back through the posts, there is a way to use the 69-72 setup as well, a bit more involved with the discs as you have to use the old hubs with D200 rotors and new studs as the old rotors arnt actually readily available, but doable and more available as ppl dont want them. The later caliper with the 3" piston will bolt up for even better results
you dont need the lca's just the spindle and caliper mounts and hubs - calipers you can get anywhere, rock auto are cheap
Apart from weight you will not do better than the factory stuff without 6 pot brembos or something similar - the kit your looking at probably has thinner discs - the 13" option may be a bit better, but either will run you twice or more of what you will spend on the factory stuff
The 69-72 C-body disc brakes work just fine on any of the earlier C-bodies. The ONLY downside is that the rotors are more expensive for the 69-72 disc brakes than for the 73 disc brakes.
Rockauto has rotors for the 73 cars for $35 to $75. For the 69-72 cars rotors are $98 to $155 each. Other than the different rotors the installation is the same.
Also note that the 69-72 rotors use the same wheel bearings as the drum brakes so if you have good wheel bearings you will not need to change them which will help defray some of the cost of the rotors.
To add to the confusion the rotors for the early (69-72) and late (73) are identical. The only difference is how they are machined for the bearings. I had a set of each side by side at one time and they had the same casting number. Calipers are the same between the early and late brakes as well.
Joined: Wed Dec 21 2005, 07:34AM
Location: indiana
Posts: 791
I've been real curious about the ECI kit too, of all the kits I've studied I feel it's the best choice. No bearing sleeve BS, bolts right to the drum spindle, which saves a lot of work, especially if your BJ studs are on the verge of spinning when you go to remove them. I'm not sure of what the bigger-bore GM caliper does with our MC as far as pedal feel, but my hunch is you'd quickly get used to however it feels.
And they offer a 13" kit if you ever want to go to big wheels. I've contemplated to run the standard kit until my 14" tires wear out, then upgrade to 17" wheels and the bigger rotors.
But my dreams exceed my hobby time.
For under $1100, the factory stuff is a fabulous upgrade also, and can probably be done for $500 all-in if you do the labor.
Joined: Wed Dec 21 2005, 07:34AM
Location: indiana
Posts: 791
flj wrote ...
To add to the confusion the rotors for the early (69-72) and late (73) are identical. The only difference is how they are machined for the bearings. I had a set of each side by side at one time and they had the same casting number. Calipers are the same between the early and late brakes as well.
Further: The seal is also different, it rides on a larger-dia surface on the 73 spindle and IIRC the seating bore in the rotor is different also. I've done *a bunch* of 'net research on different rotor measurements and the bearings/seals to find a prospective rotor that would bolt on and then just require a custom caliper adapter (or if it did fit, it was some other $150 rotor). Everything I found boiled down to no good prospect of rotor/seal that would fit the 69-72 disc/65-72 drum spindle surface. I read somewhere about a transmission seal that might be suitable (dimensionally, anyway, but who knows about material/grease compatibility) but I had lost enthusiasm by then. And I never even got into whether the bearing spacing was compatible!
I now think the key is to use the existing hub/bearing/seal system as factory and then put a floating rotor on it. I found a 12 1/2" rotor (same thickness as the C-rotor, too, which many aren't) that fits the hub and register perfectly but haven't been able to mockup a bracket to get a caliper in close enough to fit under 15" wheels. I've eval'd every combination of drum rotor, C-disk rotor, C-caliper, including spindle brackets from C-body, 10.87" F-M-J brackets, 11.87" R-body brackets, and the caliper/bracket that goes with that awesome rotor, but nothing fits very well from an engineering perspective (bracket thickness, amount of material between neighboring boltholes, etc). Is that sentence confusing and hard to read? Well, that's how much stuff I tried to fit together!
98% of modern rotors are too shallow in the hub area vs a C-rotor, and that puts the caliper too far outboard and into the rim.
But again, I'd also love to hear if anybody is running the ECI.
Joined: Fri Aug 05 2011, 08:06PM
Location: Brisbane Australia
Posts: 132
Ive noticed that when im researching brakes that regardless of brand, no one is happy with what they have - viper calipers are a ducks nuts upgrade for alot of the mopars, but then the viper guys are looking for something better too.... See a pattern emerging? Im sure theres some big conspiracy designed to get more money out of us lol
Pretty much the only answer after the bolt on factory stuff is a MUCH bigger disc (14" 350mm) and 17's and optionally to save a bit of weight, a light caliper that uses a radial mount like the willwoods.
Not sure going 12 1/2 would be worth the effort for example, you could probably achieve the same "feel" with a master cyl size change, moving the pivot point on the brake pedal and a proportioning valve. The factory caliper has heaps of surface area and replacing it with something with more seals to blow seems pointless
Spending money on loosing weight elsewhere is arguably a better option - there's less to stop and you can accelerate better.
Better shock absorbers to stop the car leaning forward under braking would be very beneficial too
Joined: Wed Dec 21 2005, 07:34AM
Location: indiana
Posts: 791
We're straying from the OP's goal as he is presumably looking to retain stock wheel size (as are many of us?), which the ECI can do with the smaller kit. For anyone considering the small kit, be aware you'll need disc wheels if staying 14" (Aspen/Volare or late-model A-body).
I don't think the next answer is a 14" disc, I think that's overkill for a street C, and that much brake power might either lead to wheel lockup or maybe cause excessive squirm in the suspension compliance.
Yes, saving weight from the car is a winner from every perspective, but after emptying the trunk there's not a lot of simple low-fruit on that for us street cruisers.
The point of my 12.5" rotor eval was not specifically to get a bigger rotor, but to find a cheap ~12" rotor to fit behind a 15" wheel for those of us that want to keep stock wheels. And adding over 1/2" dia (~5%) goes directly to more torque on the rotor (with all else equal). Tis one is so close - once I find the right caliper/bracket combo it's a $60 for rotors, custom caliper brackets ($100?) and whichever caliper fits (most OEM calipers are reasonably-priced). And no swapping out the spindles, which makes a disc upgrade a bigger job.
If someone made a 16" Magnum 500 my car would be wearing that setup already, as it fits under a 16" rim. The billet 17" wheels don't do it for me.
Joined: Fri Aug 05 2011, 08:06PM
Location: Brisbane Australia
Posts: 132
I have been pushing a stock set up pretty heavily
Have you looked at toyota landcruiser calipers? they are very close to being a bolt on for our A bodies over here in oz. Theres a few different piston diameters, but they are mostly alloy - whats the 12.5 rotor off?