Joined: Tue Nov 06 2007, 04:01PM
Location: detroit
Posts: 41
Hi all; Has anyone seen a vendor producing replacement fuse blocks for our cars? I have a 65 300 and a 66 T&C; both cars have rusty fuse terminals (odd, especially on the 65, an Arizona car). I'd like to get this cleaned up, along with the bulkhead terminal connectors, before I have a problem. I suspect they can be cleaned up, but rust never sleeps, so.... Any advice? Thanks, Mark
Joined: Tue Sep 07 2010, 08:49AM
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 218
Upgrade to ATO Fuses. - The fun part of having a problem is that it is an opportunity for an upgrade. If you have the bad luck of having nothing go wrong, you may be being condemned to living with something crappy forever. - What an exciting new topic! - Glass Tube Type Fuses. - Glass tube type fuses [SAE J554] are obsolete. They have not been used by North America automobile manufactures since 1981. That is 31 years ago. Their connections are notorious for deteriorating. I have had to sandpaper the connections to get them to work again. They are vulnerable to thermal runaway, which is overheating that causes more overheating. You probably have heat melt scars, or even holes, on your fuse block, this is what caused it. Glass tube type fuses also have internal weakness, as solder is used in their internal construction. These thermal runaways can melt the solder and cause the fuse to malfunction or not function at all. Many blown glass tube fuses are not the result of an electrical overload but the result of thermal runaway within the fuse box. It sends one looking for a wiring problem that doesn�t exist, except within the fuse box. - Blade Type Fuses. - In 1976 a new type of fuse was developed just for automobiles. Now I often view something new as the bean-counters have won and now we have something cheaper. But in the case of Blade Fuses, �progress� is refreshingly progress. The Blade Type fuses of interest are called ATO fuses. - I think that �AT� stands for �Automotive Type� [or "American Type' ] and �O� stands for Open. �O� means Open at the bottom, whereas �C� means Closed at the bottom, and �R� means Regular. But generally in my mind, for general conversation, ATO includes ATO, ATC, and ATR. ATO is referred to as the �Regular sized� as opposed to the larger �Maxi� design or the smaller �Mini� design. IMHO the �Mini�s� smaller connection surfaces are not an asset. ATO [regular sized] fuses, cover the range from 1 Amp to 40 Amps. Maxi sized fuses, cover the range from 20 Amps to 120 Amps. More stuff from Wikipedia. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuse_%28automotive%29 - Another cool thing is there is a small opening at the top shoulders of the ATO fuses. It can be used to test if the fuse still good. Can it get more cool than that? Well I am afraid that it can. One vendor, I think 3-M, makes an ATO fuse line that has a LED light built into their ATO fuses that comes on if the fuse goes bad. You can spot it immediately. - I have just upgraded my 67 Chrysler to a 70's style 3-wire 75 Amp Powermaster square-back Alternator. I am in the process of many aspects of MAD Electricity type upgrades. This topic is months ahead of where I am currently at. I am glad to see someone has started this conversation. I had noticed that Painless has ATO conversion kits for hundreds of dollars. Is that outrageous? I think that you can do your self for about $25. The first step is to count how many fused you have in your current fuse box, then you will know what to look for. - Sometimes marine products are actually better. This is not a recommendation, but it is simply the first ATO fuse box that Google came up with. - http://store.anchormarina.com/anchor/details.php?ITEM=3640740 - Hopefully someone who has upgraded to ATO, or who is contemplating an ATO upgrade, will contribute his two-cents worth. - RJ
Joined: Tue Sep 07 2010, 08:49AM
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 218
Googling for Fuse Blocks - My 1967 Chrysler�s regular parking place is 120 miles away from where I live. I get to visit it every couple of months and, if I am lucky, I get to spend a couple of hours fixing stuff. So I have months to research how I am going to do what is next on my list. - I usually spend my last waking hours researching this stuff, in bed with my Lenovo ThinkPad laptop on my chest, until I start to get hazy, then usually I have enough consciousness to close the lid and set the laptop down beside my bed. - Another problem that I have is that about one a month my computer hangs up [crashed]. When I reboot, I lose all my bookmarks and note files. It is the downside of running under Deep Freeze. I have permanently lost the links to some vital information that I was never able to find again. So the only way I can keep these links permanently is to post them in a DryDock post [LOL]. - The 1967 Chrysler Service Manual. On the page 8-66 is a picture of the Fuse Block. [Part # 2291593 is stamped on it.] - I was a little surprised that it only has six fuses in it. All the fuses are in one row. It is wonderfully simple. - Somehow I must have confused it with the relatively terrifying fuse box on my 66 Cadillac [LOL]. It has ten fuses in two rows of five each. - Inside the Chrysler fuse box? I have never seen inside of a Chrysler fuse box. The left side is covered, hiding how the wires are connected on the inside. What is in there? My guess is the wires are terminated by female blade terminals that are pushed onto the fuse box blades, and that the wire from the battery has a ring terminal on it. I have no idea if the female blade terminals are of the uninsulated type or if they are an insulated type. If someone has seen inside, please tell me if I have guessed right. - If my guess is right, replacing the old fuse box with an ATO blade type fuse box would be incredibly simple. - Please let me ponder the old fuse box as I look at the picture with my magnifying glass. Top Fuse : Radio <- [7.5 Amps] 2nd Fuse: Heat <- -> A/C [20 Amps] 3rd Fuse: ACC <- -> RR-AC [20 Amps] 4th Fuse: Cigar <- -> Ltr. [20 Amps] 5th Fuse: Tale <- -> Stop-Dome [20 Amps] 6th Fuse: Instr <- -> LPT. [4 Amps] - I have no idea what �RR-AC� or �LPT� means. In times past, I though the arrows meant something mysterious, but I think they are simply showing that the label relates to the fuse above. - I have no idea if things are actually wired as the labels imply. There also seems to be one, or more, 20 Amp in-line cartridge type glass fuses somewhere. These flakes are probably worse than the fuse box system fuses. Hunt them down and replace them with ATO fuses. - A really good solution. Bussmann makes an ATO six fuse box. It is split, three fuses on each side. I have given up, after much searching, on finding something with the original design of six fuses on one side. It is so simple. $12 at Amazon, $14 at RockAuto Bussmann is a first-class old-line manufacture of automotive fuses. Its metal parts are tinned copper. [Perfect] Model Number 15600-06-20 - http://www.amazon.com/Bussmann-BP-15600-06-20-Quick-Connect/dp/B001BXKLNQ/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1352731503&sr=8-3&keywords=atc+fuse+panel - To go on. Oddly, the automotive audio manufacturers are the ones coming out with really cool products. Cool looking stuff with gold-plated terminals. Look out. Most of these things are for cables rather than automotive wires. Secondly, many of these boxes attach one cable to another through a fuse. They are not power distribution fuse boxes. Take a second at what you are looking at. - I liked the following display of 36 beautiful photographs of fuses. I learned a lot. Don�t miss it. The ninth photograph surprisingly shows that you do not need a holder to use an ATO fuse, female blade terminals can be attached directly to the ATO's blades. Another thing I learned here is that are fuse taps so that you can attach accessories to an ATO fuse. I have some fuse taps these on my glass fuses. I was afraid that I was going to have a problem with this when I convert to ATO. Happily it will not be a problem. They show three different types. They are in photographs twelve, thirteen, and fourteen. - http://www.bcae1.com/fuses.htm - BigBarneyCars may be the biggest hero of all around here. He pioneered the way, with his $5 junk yard ATO conversion from an 89 Barron. I would like to know more about this. When did Chrysler convert to ATO? ATO fuses were developed in 1976 The C-Bodies, such as Chrysler Newports, were manufactured from to 1965 to 1978. Chrysler was having some problems, but they did continue to manufacture the �replacement� R-Body Newports in 1979, 1980, and 1981. They only made one body style, a 4-door pillared sedan. Their primary reason for this �full sized� extension was to try to hold onto the cop-car market. 1981 was also the last year that any North American manufacturer used glass fuses. Hopefully that last straggler was not the R-Body Newport. - So when did Chrysler convert on of these to ATO fuses? Perhaps there is a part number and the Chrysler parts departments have some in stock. - RJ
<span class='smallblacktext'>[ Edited Mon Nov 12 2012, 10:38AM ]</span>
Joined: Wed Nov 17 2010, 03:28PM
Location: florida
Posts: 1311
Ive done the upgrade with a painless 18 circuit fuse box along with a bulkhead delete and a homemade harness.its hard to believe my 66 ran on 6 fuses.i knew i needed it when i would push in cig lighter and smoke would come from fuse box !
Joined: Tue Sep 07 2010, 08:49AM
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 218
S T O P T H E P R E S S !
Again, RJ has made a big mistake. This is not the first time that I have posted a couple of pages, only to do an 11th hour change of mind. - My premise was that our fuse box was like a power distribution box. The hot wire came in and the power went along a common buss, then through the various fuses to the various components. One hot wire in, six wires out. The Bussmann universal ATO fuse box that I was �recommending� works exactly like that. - Our Chrysler fuse box does not work that way. It is a hybrid between the single input fuse box and the type of fuse box where each fuse is independent and has a separate input source. - This shows up clearly on the wiring diagram on page 8-82 of the 1967 Chrysler Service Manual. - Let me modify my observations from the photograph mentioned in a previous post. - These are fed from wire QA2-12-BK Accessory Feed [Somewhat Mysterious] Top Fuse : Radio <- [7.5 Amps] 2nd Fuse: Heat <- -> A/C [20 Amps] 3rd Fuse: ACC <- -> RR-AC [20 Amps] - These are fed from wire Q2-12-R Battery Feed. [Could use the Ammeter terminal] 4th Fuse: Cigar <- -> Ltr. [20 Amps] 5th Fuse: Tale <- -> Stop-Dome [20 Amps] - This is fed from wire E1-18-T[Tan] Panel Lamp Dimmer Switch [Dimmer Switch Rheostat] 6th Fuse: Instr <- -> LPT. [4 Amps] - So it makes sense. Some stuff is from the always-alive feed. Some stuff is from the ignition switch Some stuff is from the dimmer Rheostat. - That Bussmann fuse box is now off the list. Here is one to consider. Put a buss wire between terminals 1, 2, & 3. Put a different buss wire between terminals 4 & 5. - http://www.amazon.com/Auxiliary-Automotive-Fuse-Box-Holder/dp/B003JPCZAQ/ref=pd_sbs_auto_2 - BigBarneyCars $5 junk yard ATO conversion from an 89 Barron is looking better all the time, - RJ
Joined: Tue Sep 07 2010, 08:49AM
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 218
The 1979 Newport was the first Newport with ATO fuses. - RockAuto is good to use to associate what went with what year car. When you look up 1978 Newport fuses, it shows glass fuses. When you look up 1979 Newport fuses, it shows ATO fuses. - Since 1978 was the last year of C-body Newports, C-bodys always had glass fuses. - The New 1979, 1980, 1981 R-body Newports had ATO fused. The R-body only ran for three years. IMHO, the �full sized� R-body was probably the closest thing to a C-body. They had only one model, a 4-Door pillared Sedan. Check them out here. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_R_platform - It was obviously a grasp at keeping a hold in the cop-car market. - So, who is going to call a junk yard first? - RJ
<span class='smallblacktext'>[ Edited Tue Nov 13 2012, 08:57AM ]</span>
Joined: Tue Oct 06 2009, 09:37AM
Location: Paris, KY
Posts: 1496
rj wrote ... The 1979 Newport was the first Newport with ATO fuses. - RockAuto is good to use to associate what went with what year car. When you look up 1978 Newport fuses, it shows glass fuses. When you look up 1979 Newport fuses, it shows ATO fuses. - Since 1978 was the last year of C-body Newports, C-bodys always had glass fuses. - The New 1979, 1980, 1981 R-body Newports had ATO fused. The R-body only ran for three years. IMHO, the �full sized� R-body was probably the closest thing to a C-body. They had only one model, a 4-Door pillared Sedan. Check them out here. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_R_platform - It was obviously a grasp at keeping a hold in the cop-car market. - So, who is going to call a junk yard first? - RJ
Well RJ, you beat me to it. I was going to say the R bodies as my '79 Dodge St. Regis has the ATO fuses. If you're talking R bodies you can include the Plymouth Gran Fury and the New Yorkers on that list. The Plymouth is an 80-81 car only as there were no '79s.
Joined: Tue Oct 06 2009, 09:37AM
Location: Paris, KY
Posts: 1496
While I'm thinking of it, in addition to the R bodies M body cars would probably be good fuse box donors as those cars go all the way up to 1989, but then it seems to me that it's possible that ANY later Mopar fuse box with the modern fuses would be a good choice for upgrading. I could be wrong of course.
