Joined: Thu Oct 13 2005, 04:41PM
Location: Da swamp
Posts: 8
71F3 wrote ... Ugh This is going nowhere
The bottom line is, and now you have a few opinions, the brass and Copper have better cooling properties. Aluminum works. . .Yes I agree. But in the OEM case, car manufacturers use them because they are cheaper, and lighter.
The Rad Shop told you, my rad guy told me, the same thing. Brass is better. I dunno Dana, that's pretty convincing to me. . .
Now I ask you. Why do you think there is such a hugh price difference? $169 vs. $400, and that is a current price. Which one would you put your expensive engine on?
Not only that, counting the votes, Brass wins.
The Rad shops prefers brass as it takes a serious tigger to weld an aluminum radiator sucessfully, and most get replaced rather than repaired now anyways, read its putting them out of business. If electrolysis is under control, I see no reason for brass to be better, there are enough OEM aluminum radiators on the road with 200,000 miles to prove they last. Summit brand radiators are actually Northern products from what I remember, a made in USA product equivalent to a Griffen and under $200.
Aluminum dissapates heat better I thought over brass?
I have a new brass in mine that keeps it cool just fine BTW.
When I built mine, I upgraded my 318 to 340-6 specs. I had an original 383 Fury radiator that I flushed and pressure tested. It was a 2 row unit. I ran hot to the point on a 95 degree day in traffic I had to run the heater on full blast to help disapate heat. Tried fans/shrouds/jetting. Still ran hot. Went to a local radiator shop and the fit a high efficient 3 row (claims it to be equiv to a 4-1/2 row) to my original tanks to keep an original look and found a 160 thermo. This got me from the 240-260 range down to the 190-210s. Still ran hotter than I like, but not "scary hot". Converted from points to MoPar electronic and last year I ran 170 all summer long!!! I'm convinced my timing was the main reason for the heat. I believe the advance in my points distributor was bad. Never would ping, but would bind up on restarts.
BTW, I am going to go the same route with the 440 in my Wanna-Bee...
Joined: Wed Oct 12 2005, 12:21PM
Location: Jersey, the only state that doesn't need the New...
Posts: 676
Since its a rad post... i will just say i aparnetly got the last 70 new yorker stock replacement in the country for my 72.... they had to ship it from mississippi... (no one had 72s in my $ range... i guess) Anyway it went right in.... but had to convince the shroud to do the same... I still gotta change the t-stat.... enigne mounts tomorow... then im mobile.... (minus breaks and a rear end in need of service) I cant tell if the rad is copper or not since its all black right now.... but doesnt seem as heavy as the old one.... either way I'm
Joined: Sun Oct 09 2005, 05:02PM
Location: ALLEN PARK, MI.
Posts: 2007
Well Dana, let us go over all this! Your engine is puttint out darn close BHP to mine. Our power levels are about the same. Timing and advance curves? I don't know if you back your's off for street driving. I do not. I stay at 38* all in by 2,400 RPM. Curve starts at about 1,200 RPM. This is SERIOUS advance as you know for a BB Mopar engine. Race setting. Heat from advanced timing? YOU BET!
Getting to the point. I have the FACTORY 22" rad....recored from "2" to a "3" core with the high EFF. fins per SQ. inch. Milidon STANDARD aluminum water pump and housing. I am using March underdrive pulleys which do not help! I was at a 180* t-stat.
Main point now! With the FACTORY 19" A/C steel 7 blade fan and Hayden fan clutch 2 summers ago when temps were in the high 80's at most, the BATLSHP never went over 210* at idling. No shroud as one will not fit with that BIG fan. A 15" Permacool trans cooler is mounted BEFORE my rad also. NO connections to the rad tank for trans cooling.
Final point! The past summer....temps at 90's VERY OFTEN! Coolant temps trying to hit 215* +/-.
I go and get a 16" Permacool electric fan so I can CENTER IT on my rad...unlike the other fan. Set the control relay to come on at 180* coolant temp. After driving for 30 minutes around town on an 85* day, coolant hit 230* a few blocks from home! I got lucky!
Final answer? I am moving over the 16" and adding "2" 6" Permacool puller fans to cover the REST of my core. Changing to a 160* stat. We shall see if that does it! The BIG steel fan kept my set-up at 210* and lower most of the time. I need more fan pull.
Oh yea, I'm running 50/50 anti-freeze and a FACTORY heater system. Stick with the brass/copper stuff! Rad shop told me that those old factory tank units are 10X stronger than the new plastic/aluminum tanks and core. All aluminum rads? Lightweight race stuff mostly! Whee-woo! Long story.....but I feel for your problem.....I have it too! Too much power I think? TONYPRO RACING
Joined: Sun Feb 05 2006, 11:51PM
Location: Pa
Posts: 3064
I looked in a Summit catalog to see what they're sellin for $ 169, and saw it was an aluminum 2 row core rad with 1" tubes. So I asked my buddy in the rad biz why so few tubes & so big of a tube? His reply - the technology to make aluminum tubes 1/2" like brass/copper rads is too expensive and frought with failures because you're drawing the aluminum out too thin. The cores are 2 row because, besides being cheaper to make, they are meant for drag cars that don't see much use and this also allows the air to flow faster around the tubes. And there just isn't much room for tubes that are 1 inch! So now all the coolant runs thru a few large tubes instead of flowing thru many 1/2" tubes. He makes brass/copper rads for streetrods & musclecars with 3-4 rows, and you can get louvered fins for more surface area (air), dimpled tubes (more surface area for water), staggered tubes to fit cores with more tubes in tighter areas, and you can even block off the path of the water inside the tanks to a serpentine flow to keep the water in the radiator longer. All of the tubes are soldered and you can get reinforced corners (thick plates around bunches of tubes under the corners of the headers that keep the rad from shaking apart in heavy duty use situations) Aluminum rads are usually bonded together, and when they leak most use epoxy injectors to fix or shall we say "patch" ( "You want I should use da Bubblicious or da Bazooka on that rad Bub? Your choice." ) the tubes. I've replaced the alum./plastic tank factory jobs in 2 of my cars with brass/copper retrofit radiators and I'm never going back...
ps.- make sure that the replacement radiator holds the same or MORE coolant than the factory job, that the filler neck is the highest point in the system, and use a coolant recovery bottle and fan shroud!
<span class='smallblacktext'>[ Edited Sun Jun 11 2006, 05:12PM ]</span>
Joined: Fri Oct 07 2005, 12:03PM
Location: Central Ky.
Posts: 1575
Factory radiator re-cored to a 3-row before I parked the car in 95', only had about 2 years use on it & still clean inside so I used it.
Correct factory shroud & new viscous assy with factory fan, Mp alimum housing & pump. A/C condenser out front & tranny cooler also...
Stayed cool in traffic at the Nats ( 90 +day ) with the A/C on. Factory temp guage just showed a bit over straight up sitting in traffic, get moving again & went back down like it should to just under straight up. Just drove it to Bowling Green & back & no overheat issues......
Joined: Sat Dec 10 2005, 04:28PM
Location: United States
Posts: 4954
I just thought I would let you know.
I am starting to pile up the left over parts from the donor D 150 pickup for the magnum engine transplant.
Low and behold. . .there it was. . . A copper radiator with plastic tanks. So it's safe to say, even with palstic tanks, Chrysler chose to keep the copper as new as 92 that I know of.
Joined: Thu Oct 13 2005, 04:41PM
Location: Da swamp
Posts: 8
PIETIN440 wrote ... All aluminum rads? Lightweight race stuff mostly!
Actually the new factory hotrods use all aluminum radiators now, no plastic at all. Also look at the factory electric cooling fans on these OEM radiators, nothing aftermarket can keep up.
Like I said, I have a new brass on mine, but don't believe the old timer nonsense that the new aluminum radiators are inferior to the older brass.
If you want to look original, you need a top tank brass unit. If you want the best cooling, you need either a 4 row brass or a 2 row aluminum as they will both work well IMHO on these cars. All the aluminum will be side tank so they will never look original, and IMHO on these sleds the weight savings is negligible.
My car has a new 2 row brass and in Florida heat I never go over 220 and I have a 195 Tstat, no shroud, and a large mech fan with clutch.
Set the control relay to come on at 180* coolant temp. After driving for 30 minutes around town on an 85* day, coolant hit 230* a few blocks from home! I got lucky! 
Too much power I think? 
TONYPRO RACING
