Joined: Sat Mar 04 2006, 08:01PM
Location: Tucson AZ
Posts: 171
You gotta admit, our C's in stock form were not blessed with the best brakes, steering, or handling if you want to push them any harder than just cruising. We know Magnumforce and the like have pretty much shunned us C owners other than the upgraded stuff from Firm Feel. However, if you do all of FF's top of the line stuff for the C your looking at over 3k minimum and you still haven't addressed anything brake related. If you had an A, B, or E body you could get a full tubular k-frame setup with power rack and pinion and killer brakes for that kind of money!
It seams the only other readily available option available to us is the Mustang II suspension. It's lightweight and has some good brake options. However, IMO, it just isn't up to the task for an everyday driver C. Great for 1/4 mile blasts but wouldn't help our cars handle any better and, in all reality, would probably make it worse. It would also require quite a bit of fabrication to install it in to a C which is more than some wish to, or can do, themselves.
I've been trying to brainstorm ideas for an upgraded front suspension. I figure the best thing is to try to graft the suspension from another vehicle on to the C. Something that can be made to work on a modified K-frame, with parts that can readily be found, strong enough for our heavy cars, yet actually be an upgrade in all three areas, braking, handling, and steering. Oh, and at least has some aftermarket goodies available.
I have been studying the late second generation Dakota ('97-'04) front suspension for a possible swap. It comes with power rack and pinion steering that is designed for a rear wheel drive vehicle (rack sits low enough), has coil springs (eliminating torsion bars for additional header/exhaust clearance), comes standard with 11" disc brakes (12" in '03-'04), has a 62" track width, and it comes off of a heavy truck so it should be up to handling our cars. There are dropped spindles, lower control arms, and coil springs available to lower the ride height easily up to 5 inches, plus upgraded bushings, swaybars, shocks, and rotors/pads. I think it might be able to work but haven't scienced it out at this point. I know the bolt pattern is 6 on 4.5", which sucks, but that can be fixed by having the hubs and rotors redrilled.
So, anyone see something wrong, or that I'm missing, that would absolutely make this a no-go option? I was also trying to keep it Mopar but I'm open to other front ends that might be made to work well on our C's. Ideas, comments?
Yeah, I know I'm crazy but I like solving problems, tinkering, and just messing things up!
After owning said year of Dakota for 14 years. I only have 2 complaints. 1. I've had 3 PS racks in it because when the O-rings go bad, there is no repair to stop the leak except to replace the rack. 2. squeaky, squeally, noisy, and warped front rotors. IDK if this is because i have the Smaller rear drums that don't seem to stay adjusted, or the loose nut behind the wheel. Strangely enough it still out brakes my brothers 04 quad cab w/ 4 wheel disks. but brakes on these trucks were never a strong point.
Joined: Wed Nov 17 2010, 03:28PM
Location: florida
Posts: 1311
i own a dak also and think it wouldn't be worth the trouble.trying to make a "c" handle isn't impossible but probably out of the normal budget for most.i would love to see someone put a modified magnum force or alterkation in a "c".firm feel prob offers the best solution and simplicity but also at a cost.big brakes are available but expansive.ive modified my 66 and its the best it will get with all things considered.b bodies and e bodies are designed similar to a c body and they will handle so i think desgn is good ,just a lack of parts.first thing that should be done is to have a strong sub frame.i rewelded mine in all critical areas for added strength and all new hardware to bolt it in.i use tubular upper a arms,qa1 adjustable shocks from a first gen camaro,flaming river quick ratio manual steering box,all new tie rods with custom billet sleeves,custom adjustable strut rods copied from hotchkis,new ball joints,stock sway bar with modified billet mounts,73 spindles with custom adapters for first gen viper/brembo calipers,stock 11 3/4 discs,18/20 bfg tires.super stock b body springs in rear with strange adjustable shocks,e body sway bar with custom mounts,custom snubber with lift bars which is like a caltrac. the only thing i may do or not is firm feel torsion bars but for now i use stock.my car handles well for a big car but it will never be what it isn't and i know it.nothing i did is more than a hair above stock using whats available or what i could make.ive owned the car forever so its been a work in progress and if i started today i would have done it different but again its still a c body and has its limits.
Joined: Sat Mar 04 2006, 08:01PM
Location: Tucson AZ
Posts: 171
Worth it, hmm. It all depends on the person, what they are trying to achieve, and their bank account!
Moparmnk, I have also owned several Daks and still have one, an '01 Dakota Sport 4.7 2wd. Never had a problem with brakes or the racks. Only problem ever was one PS pump that liked to make noise. I know a lot of people have had the same experience as you, though. I have been lucky with mine I guess.
Dacuda, I guess I'm not really trying to make it handle any better than stock. I just want something that isn't 40+ years old, handles at least as well as stock, that has easy and cheap parts availability, rack and pinion steering, disc brakes, better clearance for headers, and allows for an oil pan with increased capacity, that can be bought off the shelf, and doesn't compromise ground clearance. I really think the Dak front end can meet all of those requirements.
Maybe a little background on what I'm trying to do with my Fury might help explain my reasoning. My car will be driven on the street quite regularly but will be built to run the 1/4 mile. Think pro-street. It will have fiberglass fenders and hood, roll cage, and most of the typical racer mods except it will retain all street running gear like wipers, lights, and heat. I'm even thinking about building a new front subframe/k-member to stiffen the front and lose even more weight.
I have the skills and time to make pretty much about anything. Anything I can do myself I will. I like doing it for the pride in having done it myself and to save the money for other areas of my build. What I can't make/do myself, I have friends or know places that can do it for me. I also have a few structural engineer friends that I can run designs by and they are always willing to help me with my crazy projects (I think I amuse them!). Yes, I'm crazy and think way out of the box. However, isn't that how hot rodding got started, guys trying and doing things others haven't? I'm open to other front end suggestions but building up the factory C suspension just isn't worth it to me and trying to mod a Magnumforce setup is just way too exotic/expensive for me.
Joined: Sat Mar 04 2006, 08:01PM
Location: Tucson AZ
Posts: 171
If I pursue the Dak front end, I will. I'm only in the idea stage at this point. Out of all the OEM Mopar front suspensions the 2nd Gen Dakotas appear to be the best option and haven't ruled it out as of yet. I will, however, continue my search in to Ford and GM front suspensions as well.
I was thinking about a late model Dodge LX platform for a front suspension swap. One it's still dodge. Two track is close to what it is now at 63". Three rack and pinion. Forth the stock weights of the Chargers/Magnums/300's are right at 4400lbs so it would handle the weight of a C. Negative, it's a strut frontend so you'd have to build shock towers. However if you're going to have to weld anyway how much more work are the towers going to be? Not much overall I'd have to say. But the mounting location for the upper arm became a problem in my thoughts.
Joined: Sat Mar 04 2006, 08:01PM
Location: Tucson AZ
Posts: 171
All the reasons you considered the LX is why I have been considering the second generation Dakota. However, it is a more traditional coil spring and shock setup so shouldn't be as hard to swap as the LX.
