Hey, my 69 fury III came from the factory with the high performance 383. Motor now has 140,000 miles. Still runs strong but smokes out the tailpipes on when I accelerate and it uses oil. I plan to restore the car also, so just wondering if you guys would go for a performance build, or would keeping it stock make it worth more? Thanks for input.
How do you intend to drive it? That makes all the difference in how you should build it. What rear axle ratio do you have, and what is the stall speed of the torque convertor? Does the engine have the HP exhaust manifolds and dual pipes?
Lots of guys make the mistake of putting a big cam in, and then complain when the car runs poorly (mostly because they never get the rpms up high enough for the cam to work).
First thing you'll need to do is get the heads redone: new guides, bigger valves, hardened seats, bowls blended, better valve springs - you're looking at $700-$1K just in the heads alone.
Second big expense will be machining and parts: the crank will probably need to be turned, probably a .030 over bore with new pistons, all new bearings, rods rebuilt with ARP bolts, new Camshaft, oil pump and intermediate shaft, freeze plugs, yada,yada, yada .... All told you'll need about $5,000 to do the whole job ....
Or, you could just try replacing those ancient rock hard valve stem seals and see if the oil consumption goes down to an acceptable level so you can drive it for awhile before you decide to tear into it. <span class='smallblacktext'>[ Edited Fri Aug 20 2010, 01:13AM ]</span>
Agreed, I will not be able to afford it for a year or 2, but I want to start my research now ; ) How do I check stall speed of the converter? Yes, this car has the HP manifolds, and duals. I guess most of my driving will be done under 100, but still would like the ability to wind her up to over 120! The big thing for me is to get her moving, and right now it can't even do a brakestand. I checked and it does have sure-grip rear end, but I will look at the current ratio, my guess is how ever low they went on the sure-grips being I can't break them lose! Edelbrock makes an overhaul kit for 383s with new heads, would you recommend that kit? Thanks for the tips!
Easiest way to check the stall of the convertor is to hold the brakes and step on the gas without breaking the tires loose-the engine should rev up to the convertor stall speed. The factory HP convertor stalls at about 2200 rpm, which is plenty good. Sure grip could be had in any ratio, so hopefully you have the 3.23 gear set, but 2.76/2.94 are pretty common in these cars. There is a little metal tag on one of the 3rd member bolts that shows the ratio.
Now for that Edelbrock kit - (lots of money!) Those heads use angled plugs, so you will have to get headers- one of the spark plugs will hit the HP manifold, also, they really aren't necessary for a street car. The ports in the factory heads are sized fine for a 383/400, getting a bit small for a hot 440, but they are way too small for a big cube stroker (I'd buy the Eddy heads if I was building stroker, but otherwise the iron heads are good enough if done right). I don't care for Eddy's old cam grind profiles, they usually don't produce enough vacuum at idle to run the power brakes - Comp Cams has the new Extreme Energy grinds that are a lot better (more aggressive lift while maintaining a decent idle).
Here is my two cents:
Option 1: Keep the 383 and put in a Comp XE268H cam/lifters/timing set (get new pushrods while your at it too). You need to have the connecting rods resized and use ARP bolts, and get the rotating assembly balanced. Get a high volume oil pump/hardened intermediate shaft, and a deeper sump oil pan that holds at least 6 quarts, and reuse the old windage tray.
Have the iron heads redone with 2.14"/1.81" valves and hardened seats and have the shop run a 70 degree cut down the throats to open up the bowls (if you want you can then finish blending them with a carbide bit and a few hours work). Install new Comp #911 valve springs. Add an Eddy Performer RPM intake and 800 cfm thunder series carb. Keep the HP exhaust manifolds and get a good set of 2 1/2" duals with an H pipe.
This will net you 400+ horsepower/420 ft lbs of torque in a dead reliable package that won't require you to upgrade the rest of the drive train (it will work with as mild a drive train as 2.76 gears and an 1800 rpm stall).
Option 2: It costs the same, maybe less to rebuild a 440, so you can instantly add a ton of low end torque going this route, plus you can take your time and do it while you're still driving the car with the old 383. You can build it the same way as listed above, but with a 440 you can run a hotter cam (I'd use a Comp XE284). Eddy heads and headers would really wake the 440 up too...... <span class='smallblacktext'>[ Edited Fri Aug 20 2010, 05:49PM ]</span>
Just checked the center section tag, and it has 3.23s. Right now I am running 2 1/2s back till the rear end where I went 2 1/4 because guy that didn't couldn't fit 2.5 and an H-pipe. I thought 383s and 440s were the same except for bore? How about boring it to a 440 and then going with route 2? I know my 4 dr c-body isn't really worth much, but it has the 383 HP, good factory rear end, and pw, ps, tilt wheel, a/c, clock, crusie control. I was thinking it might be worth something by keeping the motor with the car, but maybe just sell the motor? I have had offers of 1,500 for my motor (a couple guys want it for their roadrunners)
Joined: Sun Oct 09 2005, 05:02PM
Location: ALLEN PARK, MI.
Posts: 2007
Yes, and that's what most A & B body guys would door with a 4 door C body and big block motor....strip the driveline. From listening to your replys so far, you sound like you have common sense. Yes, your c body is not worth much, but if YOU enjoy it, it's worth it's weight in gold! It is optioned out quite nicely! Don't worry about keeping it original. Build it so YOU can have fun with it. Maybe even beat those B body guys with it! !thumb Tony P.
Joined: Sun Oct 09 2005, 05:02PM
Location: ALLEN PARK, MI.
Posts: 2007
Yep, and the pushrods and distributor are different because the 440 block is TALLER than the 383/400 block. Actually if you have any block SONIC-CHECKED properly, you can bore over 0.060". You just will be faced with the trouble of finding the right pistons and thinner walls risk hotter running cylinders and cracks in them if overheated a tad. Tony P.
PIETIN440 wrote ... Yes, and that's what most A & B body guys would door with a 4 door C body and big block motor....strip the driveline. From listening to your replys so far, you sound like you have common sense. Yes, your c body is not worth much, but if YOU enjoy it, it's worth it's weight in gold! It is optioned out quite nicely! Don't worry about keeping it original. Build it so YOU can have fun with it. Maybe even beat those B body guys with it! !thumb Tony P.
My thinking exactly. One of my buddies is trying to restore a challenger, but I would thoroughly enjoy letting him inhale the exhaust of a big ol c-body !dance I guess my thinking is telling me that the engine in my car just about doubles the cool factor and adds to the story! If I sold her it's almost not worth trying to restore it being there are some rust issues on lower rear quarters : (