Joined: Fri Dec 22 2006, 08:41PM
Location: Warrenton, Virginia
Posts: 1366
Since I'm so impressed with my new torsion bars and sway bar, I've been thinking of maybe getting a rear sway bar too. I have a certain test I do on cars that reveals suspension "resoluteness" for lack of a better term. I call it the "jiggle" test. It differs from the usual shock abosorber "jounce" test we are all familiar with but is similar.
The "jiggle" test: 1) Place hand at left or right front corner of car. Attempt to move the car sideways by pushing a bit with your hand. Most newer cars have a lot of resistance to movement here. Older cars did not. My Chrysler 300 had VERY little resistance to jiggling the whole car from here with light hand pressure. NO LONGER! Since replacing the T bars and the front sway, it is just a resistant to jiggling as any newer car I've tried.
2) Place hand at left or right corner at rear of car. Attempt to move car with light hand pressure just like you did with the front. AGAIN, most modern cars resist any such movement. My Chrysler could be jiggled easily from here too. I've replaced the rear springs with ESPO replacements. The car was still easily jiggled. Since replacing the front suspension stuff, there is noticeably More resistance to jiggling here, but it is not as resistant as the front is.
3) Place hand at left or right intersection of "A" pillar and the roof. Attempt to jiggle. Most newer American cars and trucks have very little resistance to jiggle here. I can Laughably shake my dad's Explorer easily from here. The entire car jiggles like crazy, even the tires! The Chrysler can be jiggled fron here too. Thankfully not as much as the Explporer.
My '04 Honda Accord coupe can NOT be jiggled at all from any of these 3 dimensions. And the Accord has an "all of a piece" handling feel that I like (I've moded the Accord suspension a bit too).
AnYwaY, if runnung a rear sway, let me know the brand and the bar diameter.
Joined: Tue Oct 11 2005, 11:01AM
Location: Central Iowa
Posts: 227
I put an ADDCO rear bar on a 70 300 about 10 years ago. It road a little better, but not so much that I ever did it again. I have had two other 70 300's since then, and your money is better spent on shocks, tires, and a front end rebuild, new leaf springs in that order. The 70 300's ride very nice with out the rear bar.......call it Mopar Magic Suspension!
I have chatted with the guys at Just Suspension about rear sways a couple times, they aren't as hot on them either. I spoke with Jayme quite a bit last year (before the new T-Bars) about how my Fury lost rear traction on the Nascar track. I wondered if a rear sway would help, his impression was that is might actually make it worse! He thought their Ground Pounder Kit would be more helpfull. It mounts an additional KYB shock from the spring perch forward and onto the frame rail. After the T-Bar upgrade and this years laps, I didn't feel the rear loosing traction, so I opted to hold off on the Ground Pounder for now.
My guess is the ESP springs had new bushings, what about the shackles? Jayme thought I could also benefit from heavier shackles.
For the rear to "jiggle" side to side, the movement can only happen in a couple places- The springs themselves, at the shackles, bushings, spring perch (very bad) or the tires. I doubt a rear sway would make much difference side to side. There are 2 styles, one mounts to the frame rails and the spring perches, the other to the axle tubes and to the front spring sections. The first one would have a tendency for the bar to slide in the bushings on the frame, the later would offer almost nothing, since it doesn't connect to the frame.
The biggest improvement I see is in tires. Refresh me, I don't remember what you are running for tires. I have the 17x8 wheels and 275/50-17 rears, they don't jiggle much! But of course now I need to try and remember to jiggle mine next time I get it out and see what happens.
Joined: Fri Dec 22 2006, 08:41PM
Location: Warrenton, Virginia
Posts: 1366
Thanks Scott,
I'll just list my total suspension set-up for reference:
245/70 X 15 Yokohama AVIDS on 15 X 7 Wheel Vintiques Chrylser rims Just Suspension 1.16" torsion bars Firm Feel 1 1/8" front sway bar ESPO rear springs with new shackles and whatever bushings 4 "El Cheapo" shocks
I thought I had a FF stage 3 steering box (it was supposed to be installed same time as the imaginary KYB shocks. I've checked with FF about my steering box because I have over 1 1/2 inches of PLAY in it on center. Apparantly, there is either some other steering box in there or it is still my original!
I just got the complete set of "jounce bumpers" from Just Suspension
Joined: Thu Nov 24 2005, 07:29PM
Location: So Cal.
Posts: 1111
NFURY8 wrote ... I spoke with Jayme quite a bit last year (before the new T-Bars) about how my Fury lost rear traction on the Nascar track. I wondered if a rear sway would help, his impression was that is might actually make it worse!
If I hadn't let off the gas, I think we would of been out in the in field! The rear felt like it kicked about 6 inches. I will never forget the look on my wifes face!
Joined: Sat Apr 22 2006, 11:01PM
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 77
I'm running an Addco front sway bar and a FF rear sway bar on my 66 VIP. From past experiences with other cars, I noticed that I would get alot of oversteer when only running a front bar. The front of the car would stay flat around the corners but the lack of a rear bar would cause the inside rear tire to lighten, causing the rear end to loose traction...(Not exactly exciting in a good way) When I installed a rear bar, the weight of the car became more balanced between the front and rear and taking corners at high speed became much more controllable. I highly recommend a rear bar. Also in regards to the FF stage 3 steering box...I have tried both stage 1 and stage 3 and I can tell you that stage 3 is overkill. I went with a stage 1 and It's perfect.
Joined: Fri Dec 22 2006, 08:41PM
Location: Warrenton, Virginia
Posts: 1366
Thanks Furious, The steering box is going to have to be redone. I've got too much play. I've gotten used to it and I can compensate for it but there were two situations recently that made me think of getting rid of that play.
If not paying strict attention to my line when driving at highway speeds, the car can drift out of my intended path. Like, momentarily taking your eyes off the road to look at someone or something in the interior. Car has drifted almost into the next lane. My passengers have noticed this!
I recently got my new torsion bars and front sway installed. A sudden gust of wind almost had me into a concrete barrier at a construction zone. IF the play was eliminated from the steering, I could easily correct before ANY untoward motion occured.
Joined: Tue Nov 01 2005, 01:28PM
Location: Alberta Canada
Posts: 93
I have front and rear sway bars from Kanter. With the gas shocks and 265x14 tires on 14 x 7" steell rims, it corners like it's on rails. I really like it. The steering boxes can be had for $220 brand new. I'm going to get one.