Joined: Sun Feb 26 2006, 08:46PM
Location: Kingston,Ontario
Posts: 5622
AF wrote ...
I hasten to add: this was, and (hopefully) always will be a budget build...not trying to steal the real BOAB thunder here.
I am humbled,actually. People say I inspired them to build a C body. Welcome back and your build has a twist where you are building a 9 second thunder and not stealing from the BOAB which was a "factory" or "stock" build. I always loved any of the 68 Mopars. You have my blessing and looking forward to the finished product!!
Joined: Wed May 21 2008, 02:52PM
Location: Machine Shop Hell, IL
Posts: 142
Thanks for the replies / kudos, guys! Glad to be back & see the old old old crew.
Saturday Flatter-day: I never claimed to be a sheet metal guy, nor do I have any interest in becoming one. But sometimes you get lucky with Oxy-acetylene, some big chunks of flat metal and a big clamp.
Shaun said that while he could technically have just clamped these down to the flange blanks and started welding, taking the residual stress out of the post-machined cold-roll would give everything the best possible chance of staying straight after stitching.
(Last pic is before/after)
Still debating whether or not to just go full HAAM and dedicate these to the Edelbrock valvecover pattern. Murphy's Law: I'm sure whatever way I pick, I'll end up being better off with the other option, ha ha.
Joined: Wed May 21 2008, 02:52PM
Location: Machine Shop Hell, IL
Posts: 142
Spent $619 on Pro-Gram main caps today. Did not have time to cut my mockup plywood valvecover flange, although at this rate I strongly doubt I'll ever need to worry about using iron heads again.
2 year review coming up in April, which is good because a valvetrain which opens beyond 0.700" is going to be $$$$$$$. For now I'll post some Max Wedge Edelbrock spy photos (CNC'd by Scott Brown). Look Ma, inconel exhaust valves!
Joined: Wed May 21 2008, 02:52PM
Location: Machine Shop Hell, IL
Posts: 142
For anyone interested in the alignment guy, here is the info:
Robert's Tire & Auto 15741 S Bell Rd, Homer Glen, IL 60491 robertstireandautorepair.com (708) 301-6665 Ask to schedule a time with Bill Houghton - he's the guy there who really knows old Chrysler stuff. He turned my undriveable junk heap into a car you can one-hand going 120MPH (with manual steering).
Joined: Thu May 01 2008, 11:15AM
Location: Chicago,IL
Posts: 2868
Addison Wheel and Alignment is a good shop too I found last year. Old timer with a shop right out of 1979. Only takes check or cash. http://www.addisonwheelalignment.com/ Made the Charger go straight after I put a new box in, Firm Feel stage 2.
Joined: Wed May 21 2008, 02:52PM
Location: Machine Shop Hell, IL
Posts: 142
Yes, that guy!!! How can you not take your car to a guy with a torsion bar alignment tool??? I guess if he is no longer in business.....
For me, the past few weeks have been annoying.
The good part about a build thread is that it can be like your own personal Chilton's manual for your own build. Great for questions like "how the heck did I do that?" or "what was I smoking when I thought this one up?" They're especially useful for builds which take forever.
With that in mind, I will try to keep this brief, as I'm sure most people don't care to know the inner workings of Chrysler big block valvecover threaded hole machining practice. But if you do, follow along.
I did a "manual" CMM (coordinate measuring machine) operation with an extremely accurate swinging dial and an accurate-ish mill. I worked out the dimensions of both the Edelbrock and iron head gasket mating faces, discovering in this step that both are similar enough for a big orange hunk of goop, but different enough to require "threading the needle" for a 1/8" O-ring (actual diameter ~.14"). Also in this step, I discovered that the as-cast iron head profile / pattern is PERFECT with .004" of itself. I'm not talking about anything machined, I mean edges with sandy marks. I double checked it because I was in absolute disbelief that the dial made perfect bookends going around. I took a moment after that...this is how Chrysler kicked so much butt back then!!
Another important bit of info: Edelbrock elected to drill the valvecover bolt holes perpendicular to the flange surface*; Chrysler drilled them in the same operation as the valve guides. As I would discover later, that difference puts them at an angle 7 degrees shy of perpendicular with the flange surface. Not enough to be noticeable when screwing down a piece of tin or thin cast aluminum, but plenty 'nuff annoying if you're trying to attach a 1" thick flange with straight screws. The work-around for the iron heads, I thought, would be to whip up some bent "studs" (extra length socket head set screws), slide the valve covers down on them (pending engine bay clearance, ha ha ha) and nut them. Then later, when I get the Edelbrock-headed bullet in place, just use plain cap screws and be done.
Before I inconvenienced any (expensive!) steel, I decided to cut a dummy flange out of plywood. This would be a quick "sanity check" for 3 things (well actually, 6) all at once: the bolt pattern datum in iron, the o-ring profile centerline datum in iron, and the position tolerance between the two in iron, then the same 3 traits except on the Edelbrocks. I milled a "reverse" O-ring: the o-ring groove profile stands proud, so it's easy to see & feel exactly where it hits...especially in the tricky "needle threading" portions between the two.
Iron head: with bent studs, all systems were 100% go. Awesome.
Edelbrock: all systems 100% go. Awesome again.
"Maybe I should check the other Edelbrock I have, just to be safe, y'know? Nahhh, waste of time. Ehhhh, I guess, while I'm here, can't take more than five minutes right?"
Edelbrock #2: total fail. What the heck????
* = HA HA JUST KIDDING, Edelbrock drilled ONE head perpendicular, and ONE like the stock iron head. SMH. I decide I'm going to drill out & helicoil the "angled" Edelbrock bolt holes so that both match. But how am I gonna hold these suckers?
Last Friday, sitting at my desk at ~3PM, I get a bright idea: call up Metal Supermarkets and get some huge angle iron pieces cut up. Bolt the angle iron to either end of the head and bolt the assembly to the table. Mill and done. It will come in double handy when I do the O-ring receiver grooves on the other side.. I make it to Metal Supermarkets before they close for the weekend, and with angle iron in hand I trot down to the shop only to find....? Yep, I didn't really think this through. As with their factory counterparts, the Edelbrocks have an accessory bolt pattern on one end of the head and NOTHING on the other.
This was truly the "Okay, what are you even doing, just try another hobby instead" moment. It used to happen all the time with Shaun's Mustang intake, so I'm used to it now.
OKAY, so, add your own bolt pattern to the other end of the head, right? If I copy the opposite pattern, one definitely breaks into water, one definitely looks like it could work, and then the third is totally invisible (perhaps with a tiny boroscope?). I waited until Monday to call Edelbrock tech and see if they could tell me if/how any casting reinforcement existed on the blank side, but they just read me a script about how it was the worst idea in the world. I thought "screw it, I have a Chrysler and bolt holes going into water everywhere." If I break in with these, I'll weld or NPT plug.
SO:
The good (?) news is that I got to tackle something I wanted to do anyway, which is map out the entire head profile (valve location, rocker centerline, head surface, etc etc). I'll mill in the pattern on the blind side, then continue with the helicoiling at another time.
For right now, I'm just going to press on with business as usual: persuade Shaun to weld everything together for me, finish milling everything, then install on the car right now and thrash it for the summer OR until the new motor is ready. Final "concept" model will look something like this. Yes, the 4 inner bolt holes go through to oil, because there's no way an O-ring would make it around the bolt to "blind" it. I did, however, purchase special "crush" washers that seal top & bottom, but also squeeze rubber inward toward the bolt they're riding on to form a seal.
Okay, back to your regularly scheduled C-bodying. Rant over, hahaha.