Joined: Sun Oct 09 2005, 05:02PM
Location: ALLEN PARK, MI.
Posts: 2007
The Holley "BLACK" fuel pump is a VANE type pump. The instructions say it only pushes the fuel. Has anyone used one with a factory gas tank that did NOT have it ABOVE the fuel pump and have any starvation problems? A full blown Fuel Cell mounted ABOVE the pump in my trunk is not an option I want to explore! !stars Anyone? Tony P.
Joined: Sat Jun 24 2006, 11:59PM
Location: down the river michigan
Posts: 96
I run a vane type on my fury.i ran a holley for a year then switched to the aeromotive pump no problems.Weld a sump in your stock tank built a cradle to hold the pump slightly below the level of the sump and bend 1/2 lines to the carb and your good to go.a regulator with a return line will make the pump run cooler and last longer.
Joined: Sun Oct 09 2005, 05:02PM
Location: ALLEN PARK, MI.
Posts: 2007
Thanks for responding Rich! I figured you have dealt with this issue. What you say is true, but totally in the opposite direction of what I want and can do! I currently have 3/8" stainless fuel line all the way to my Aeromotive regulator. Braided lines from that. I have a repo Roadrunner gas tank, but I don't think I want to start butchering that up. I drilled the holes for the pump today on the rear frame rail.....THE ONLY fesable place I can see on the entire back half. This places the pump inlet at 1/4 above the bottom of the tank. It is above the exhaust pipe, so a heat shield will be fabed up to protect it.
Here is the deal. I know it is a VANE pump, but I cannot believe that the pump will not pull the fuel through the sender pick up tube a few inches and then push it the rest of the way. I did a finger test on the inlet while powering it up at the battery. It had suction. I know Vanes are more of a gravity feed than a mechanical, but it seems to me it SHOULD work! I was curious if someone here proved my "theory" right or wrong. The worst I can do is try it, then if it will not siphon feed, I'll drop the tank and have a fitting brazed to the bottom of the tank. Still, not my first choice!
My car will be off the road at October's start, so I'll try it then. I want to get my insurance's worth the next 1.5 months! !banana Tony P.
Joined: Sat Jun 24 2006, 11:59PM
Location: down the river michigan
Posts: 96
The sump is small maybe 4 by 6 cant really see it when painted the same as the tank.The cradle I spoke of could be made by you with hand tools out of aluminum stock,attached to the frame.This would drop you down below the tank level which is important.I dont think your pickup is 3/8 and the kinda of h.p. your making deserves a larger pickup and 1/2 lines.I have all the tools if you want to use them during the off season.As far as whether your choice of location will work well vane pumps be it gas,hydraulic or whatever prefer gravity feed but will pump either way.The pump will have to pull harder (more vacuum)which isn't good for the life of the pump.Your welcome to come by and check mine out when you get ready to change over.You could install a over/under gauge before the pump and see what your pulling and then ask holley if its acceptable
Joined: Sun Oct 09 2005, 05:02PM
Location: ALLEN PARK, MI.
Posts: 2007
Rich, that is more great info. My pick-up/sending unit is actually 3/8". I purchased it from "the Paddock" with the gas tank.....brand spanking new! Not cheap! Both are for a 73' to 74' RoadRunner. It is a side tank sender where the C body is a front sender. My fuel lines are all 3/8" STAINLESS STEEL as I had Inline Tube make them. Not cheap either! I had to custom mount the tank and remake the filler tube by cutting and welding and it is a "work of art" by my standards.
Thanks for the offer on the tools! That is kind of you for a stranger! Tells me that you must be an OK guy to offer. To bad you were not out yesturday. I was out working on "HIM" most of Sunday in AWESOME weather. I want to take my car to Sears this Friday, but rain is forcast again! We shall see! !banana
As the pump goes Rich, I hear you, but the car is never driven that long or often that this Holley "BLACK" pump won't last me some years.....be it trying to pull fuel AND running with no return line. Dana has a "BLUE" with a fuel cell in trunk, but says he has been using the pump for MANY years with no failures! I guess I'll put the BLACK to a harder test! See you soon? !banana Tony P.
Joined: Sun Oct 09 2005, 05:02PM
Location: ALLEN PARK, MI.
Posts: 2007
Rich, maybe you can answer this since Dana is taking a mental vacation! My pick up sender has a provision made into it with a (I believe) a 5/16" RETURN LINE tube which dumps back into the tank. I think it was for the factory HI-PO set ups with a return line seperator system.
My question! After studing the Barry Grant web site FUEL PLUMBING DIAGRAMS, I noticed that they have a set up with a return line directly after the electric pump output which feeds back to the fuel cell. I was wondering, in light of the pump having a "feedback loop" to keep it cooler and lasting longer, I could use this return with a T-Block after my pump outlet to get the same effect. I realize that the flow will take the path of LEAST resistance and reduce rated flow and pressure......but just how much?
It is a Holley "BLACK" pump rated at 14 PSI with a top flow of 140 GPH and 120 GPH @ 9 PSI. Think the closed loop will greatly reduce the pump's effectiveness......or? Tony P.
Joined: Fri Oct 07 2005, 12:03PM
Location: Central Ky.
Posts: 1575
Tony you might double check that return, unless you specified 5/16 the vapor returns were usually 1/4" even on the 3/8' pickups from the factory. The Fuel/vapor separators had a 1/4" nipple on them.
I'm pretty certain my 3/8" pickup has the 1/4 return on it but can't go look for sure right now.
Either way I'd sure try the return & see, worst case you close it back off.
Joined: Sun Oct 09 2005, 05:02PM
Location: ALLEN PARK, MI.
Posts: 2007
You may very well be right Butch! It is smaller for sure. That would only help more if it is. It would still allow the pump to recirculate fuel, but at a slower rate. That would keep the flow rate up more I believe. Tony P.
Joined: Fri Oct 07 2005, 12:03PM
Location: Central Ky.
Posts: 1575
There ya go! That's what I was thinking.
I'm just like you, got Stainless 3/8" fuel line front to back & Stainless Brake lines from Inline Tube. Used a 3/8" B-body pickup in the tank. My sender has the return also but I have'nt seen the need to run the return line yet ( no vapor lock issues so far ) so it's capped off for now. Bent my own steel line from pump to carb ( Also 3/8" ) & kept it out away from the engine heat as much as possible & have the 3/8" steel can fuel filter near the carb.